any premeds with mental illnesses?

[tank you]

ive been reading many psych-related articles/posts lately, and im also taking 3 upper-division psych classes this quarter that has further piqued my interest

(judging by the typical premed personality, i would say the most prevalent would be social anxiety disorder & ocd. but thats just my guess..)

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[medhacker]

ive been reading many psych-related articles/posts lately, and im also taking 3 upper-division psych classes this quarter that has further piqued my interest

(judging by the typical premed personality, i would say the most prevalent would be social anxiety disorder & ocd. but thats just my guess..)

I am surprised, I would have thought OCD but not SAD, what made you thing SAD would be prevalent among premeds?

 

[trishaaa]

I would've thought substance abuse would be higher, considering how many doctors we admit to the detox unit here each year.

 

[andi_cvr]

ADHD is not conduct disorder. You only think that because so many idiot doctors treat both the same way.

 

[LJDHC05]

I would've thought substance abuse would be higher, considering how many doctors we admit to the detox unit here each year.

They dont start abusing substances until they are in med school...or in residency. Unless you qualify my college drinking habits as "substance abuse", or my intense love of beer as "alcoholism". Alcoholism is like bhuddism isnt it?

 

[PineappleGirl]

I would expect pre-meds to have a higher rate of depression than other college students. Pre-meds tend to be perfectionists and perfectionists are very prone to depression, since, let's face it, it's depressing when you can't be perfect . I've seen so many people in college get pretty depressed when they can't get straight As or they fail orgo.

Rates of depression are also very high in med students. I remember seeing an artilce about this awhile back...not sure where.

Also, I've heard it sad that every year the number of physicians who commit suicide is equivalent to an entire med school class.


See this article: http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3004.htm

 

[PineappleGirl]

See page 11 of this article for more discussion on medical student and physician mental illness

http://www.hhpub.com/catalogue/graphics/chapter6.pdf

 

[medhacker]

When I said SAD I meant SAD=Social anxiety disorder

 

[CHEEEZ]

I have seasonal affected disorder and ADHD. Maybe a little schizphrenia.

 

[Pretty POHA]

I would expect pre-meds to have a higher rate of depression than other college students. Pre-meds tend to be perfectionists and perfectionists are very prone to depression, since, let's face it, it's depressing when you can't be perfect .

What do you mean?!!? I can't be PERFECT????

Just joshin. Mostly.
Ash

 

[nekrogg]

i know i personally have adhd (diagnosed since i was young). i can barely sit through a class of 50 minutes without my mind wandering or having to get up and walk around. i feel like im gonna explode sometimes lol

 

[momgracea]

Heh... I'm so glad to see I am not alone. That perfectionist tendancy is really getting me today. I've been feeling all depressed since I got back my first o-chem test. Thought I had squeeked by with an A - - only to find out I barely made a B.

Considering I was worried that I might FAIL o-chem, I should be glad, but here I am wallowing in anguish!! What a dork!

 

[tank you]

I am surprised, I would have thought OCD but not SAD, what made you thing SAD would be prevalent among premeds?

well, first of all, most premeds are introverted to begin with, combine that with need to study all the time results in less exposure to social environment throughout college. also, their strive for perfection in all aspects of life results in less risk-taking, such as attending parties/initiating conversations. of course, some actively participate in activities, but the introverts shy away due to their personality.

although, the median age for onset of sad is 13, so they probably exhibited symptoms in high school as well, but in college, it seems to play a bigger part of life.

bottom line: if you or someone you know has it, its best to help them asap

 

[EPA7X1]

Don't worry; if you stick with it, you'll all have mental illness before its over.

BTW, you didn't put anti-social personality disorder up there. Guess I'll just have to pick 'other'.

 

[jophe]

going into medicine can take it's toll. I know for me, the first 2 years of college were BRUTAL. All I had on my mind was STUDY, and that was it. To make a long story short, I became really depressed and anxiety shot through the roof at the same time. My grades were great, but at what cost? Thank god I changed things when I did. Being active actually helped me do even better academically. I had people to talk to, and avenues to vent. I guess what I am saying is that balance is really important, and is something that will benefit us in the long run.

 

[dbhvt]

most premeds are introverted

I wonder if that holds for matriculants. Any opinions?

 

[Chris127]

I've always believed that I have social anxiety disorder, but I am not sure. I have thought this because 1) I cant talk to girls (attractive ones). Period. (Ok, probably pretty commmon) 2) I cant give speeches or presentations. And this is reallllly bad. In high school, I would get nervous and get butterflies in my stomach the day the teacher announced we had to present something to the class, which may not have been for another week or two, but I still got nervous. So public speaking I definetaly have a MAJOR problem with. 3) I am not very outgoing, at all. I am assuming this is just my deamenor, but who knows, I am not am MD (yet).


I am assuming these are all pretty common, but I really dont know.

 

[Chris127]

I've always believed that I have social anxiety disorder, but I am not sure. I have thought this because 1) I cant talk to girls (attractive ones). Period. (Ok, probably pretty commmon) 2) I cant give speeches or presentations. And this is reallllly bad. In high school, I would get nervous and get butterflies in my stomach the day the teacher announced we had to present something to the class, which may not have been for another week or two, but I still got EXTREMELY nervous. And during the presentation, I become short of breath, start sweating profusely, and stutter/shake. Its bad, trust me. So public speaking I definetaly have a MAJOR problem with. 3) I am not very outgoing, at all. I am assuming this is just my deamenor, but who knows, I am not am MD (yet).


I am assuming these are all pretty common, but I really dont know.

 

[Rendar5]

I just know that in med school, one of our professors mentioned that at least 20% of us have had or will have anxiety attacks during these 4 years and med student personalities havea much higher incidence of similar neuroses

Though I think I remember reading somewhere that 20% of all people have anxiety issues (real ones) over the course of their lives. so that puts med students at a much higher rate than normal (4 years v 70-something years)

 

[BooMed]

I cant talk to girls (attractive ones). Period. (Ok, probably pretty commmon)

This is why pretty girls don't get hit on by nice guys! I'm serious, only a**holes hit on attractive girls. That's why hot girls often have lame, mean boyfriends. That's my theory at least.

 

[Chris127]

Sounds accurate enough.

Maybe I can be the anomaly

 

[doctorFred]

ive been reading many psych-related articles/posts lately, and im also taking 3 upper-division psych classes this quarter that has further piqued my interest

(judging by the typical premed personality, i would say the most prevalent would be social anxiety disorder & ocd. but thats just my guess..)

i would say #1 with a bullet would be substance abuse. adderall, ritalin, caffeine, alcohol.

 

[medhacker]

This is why pretty girls don't get hit on by nice guys! I'm serious, only a**holes hit on attractive girls. That's why hot girls often have lame, mean boyfriends. That's my theory at least.

A majority of women "like" bad boys, the mean ones etc, nice guys do not come accross to many women as very attractive during certain years of their life.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I've always believed that I have social anxiety disorder, but I am not sure. I have thought this because 1) I cant talk to girls (attractive ones). Period. (Ok, probably pretty commmon) 2) I cant give speeches or presentations. And this is reallllly bad. In high school, I would get nervous and get butterflies in my stomach the day the teacher announced we had to present something to the class, which may not have been for another week or two, but I still got EXTREMELY nervous. And during the presentation, I become short of breath, start sweating profusely, and stutter/shake. Its bad, trust me. So public speaking I definetaly have a MAJOR problem with. 3) I am not very outgoing, at all. I am assuming this is just my deamenor, but who knows, I am not am MD (yet).


I am assuming these are all pretty common, but I really dont know.

i am fairly outgoing (depends on the situation sometimes) and do not have SAD. However i get the same symptoms as you when having to do public speaking.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Asperger's Syndrome must be common: above average intelligence with below average social skills. based on the doctors i've met...

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

Asperger's Syndrome must be common: above average intelligence with below average social skills. based on the doctors i've met...

 

[jintonic5]

Asperger's Syndrome must be common: above average intelligence with below average social skills. based on the doctors i've met...

i guess it's possible, but i think below average social skills in a lot of intellectual people may be more due to lack of social interaction/experience, as opposed to an inability to socialize.

 

[PineappleGirl]

well, first of all, most premeds are introverted to begin with,

I would disagree. I think most people who are intersted in practicing medicine would be extroverted. Truly introverted people would not want to deal with other people, i.e., patients all the time. I think those people taking the typical pre-med classes who are very introverted will more likely end up working in labs/research. Also, I would venture to guess there are more introverted MD/PhDs than introverted MDs.

 

[DownonthePharm]

Being introverted has nothing to do with not wanting to be around people, many introverts are very sociable and love to help people.

Intead its about if being around people energizes or tires you out and what you do to recharge. The Introvert Advantage is a good book that covers a lot about introvert and extrovert characteristics.

I am an introvert who likes being around people, I just need to be alone and read sometimes.

 

[dbhvt]

Asperger's Syndrome must be common: above average intelligence with below average social skills. based on the doctors i've met...

Doesn't Asperger's have a lot more to it than that? Teri Gross made me think it was related to/a form of autism.

 

[BooMed]

Aspergers is indeed a form of autism. My sister-in-law has it and it's pretty interesting. She is a savant in some areas-she's an amazing artist and remembers the most minute, weird details about random stuff. Socially, however, she has a lot of trouble. As a 24 year-old, she has the social skills of a pre-schooler. She's taken a lot of classes to learn how to understand normal social signals (body language, facial expressions, etc.) and how to have conversations. It's gotten better, but she's still really odd sometimes.

 

[pagemmapants]

You forgot eating disorders.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

PTSD and depression in my case, mainly as a result of having seen far too much as an EMT.

 

[medhacker]

bottom line: if you or someone you know has it, its best to help them asap

This is not a very easy disease to treat unfortunately. Paxil is about the best there is and does not work as well for everyone.

 

[MSc44]

A majority of women "like" bad boys, the mean ones etc, nice guys do not come accross to many women as very attractive during certain years of their life.

i 100% agree ****!

 

[veridisquo]

Asperger's Syndrome must be common: above average intelligence with below average social skills. based on the doctors i've met...

I disagree. Think sub-par social skills as in a complete inability to socialize, to understand emotions, facial expressions, etc., what is and isn't appropriate. I think very few people with Asperger's would be able to maintain any sort of professional life.


Anyway, you forgot personality disorders and eating disorders.


As far as perfectionism goes, while perfectionistic tendencies may be common or even necessary among premeds, there is a line to be drawn between what is healthy and normal, and what is destructive.

I can recognize my ridiculous standards, but that doesn't mean I can change the way I feel. Black and white thinking (inability to understand that all A's and two B's in three years' coursework does not mean you are stupid/incompetent), drinking to the point of alcohol poisoning, threatening suicide- all because you "failed" an exam and are convinced the university has plans to terminate your enrollment- that isn't normal.

Sometimes I wonder how i'm even still alive.

 

[red dot]

I disagree. Think sub-par social skills as in a complete inability to socialize, to understand emotions, facial expressions, etc., what is and isn't appropriate. I think very few people with Asperger's would be able to maintain any sort of professional life.


Anyway, you forgot personality disorders and eating disorders.


As far as perfectionism goes, while perfectionistic tendencies may be common or even necessary among premeds, there is a line to be drawn between what is healthy and normal, and what is destructive.

I can recognize my ridiculous standards, but that doesn't mean I can change the way I feel. Black and white thinking (inability to understand that all A's and two B's in three years' coursework does not mean you are stupid/incompetent), drinking to the point of alcohol poisoning, threatening suicide- all because you "failed" an exam and are convinced the university has plans to terminate your enrollment- that isn't normal.

Sometimes I wonder how i'm even still alive.

every now and then the premed in me subsides and i read this stuff, knowing it's true with many people out there, and i think you guys are all insane. and then i remember that i've been there before myself...

 

[KudosLaLa]

Developed OCD from worrying too much about my application.

 

[gdbaby]

trichatillomania for me. I have had it since 6th grade. I think the DSMIV puts in OCD's so that's where I placed myself.

 

[Pretty POHA]

ADHD is not conduct disorder. You only think that because so many idiot doctors treat both the same way.

It's not the same, but because of the frequent co-morbidity, they're often categorized together.

 

[tank you]

i was reading an article the other day and it said that the average time before most people seek help for some anxiety disorders (like social anxiety, phobia, generalized anxiety) is around 3 yrs!! bc of embarassment, shame, fear, whatever, its still pretty sad i think.

 

[velo]

while I don't believe that having a mild mental illness precludes anyone from being a doctor (though obviously we don't want doctors with ASPD/schizophrenia/etc), I do think that pre-meds with known mental illnesses should take a hard look at themselves and honestly ask if they think they can handle the stress of a career in medicine. While it is very difficult to get into medical school, nowadays very very few people fail to complete med school--and of the small group of people who do not I'd say a majority are people who have realized that the stress is too much to bear when superimposed on an existing mental illness. If you are struggling with the stress of your undergraduate work because of a mental illness, don't delude yourself into thinking that it will be any easier in medical school/residency/etc. You're only harming yourself by choosing a career that you know, deep down, may be too stressful for you.

 

[Em1]

Has anyone else read "An Unquiet Mind," by Kay Redfield Jamison?

She's a Ph.D. psychologist who has bipolar disorder. She does research and sees patients, and is a psychiatry prof at Johns Hopkins. It brings up a lot of good issues and is VERY intersting. I highly recommend it.

 

[Nikki2002]

i love all you guys--you are all awesome

 

[prana_md]

while I don't believe that having a mild mental illness precludes anyone from being a doctor (though obviously we don't want doctors with ASPD/schizophrenia/etc), I do think that pre-meds with known mental illnesses should take a hard look at themselves and honestly ask if they think they can handle the stress of a career in medicine. While it is very difficult to get into medical school, nowadays very very few people fail to complete med school--and of the small group of people who do not I'd say a majority are people who have realized that the stress is too much to bear when superimposed on an existing mental illness. If you are struggling with the stress of your undergraduate work because of a mental illness, don't delude yourself into thinking that it will be any easier in medical school/residency/etc. You're only harming yourself by choosing a career that you know, deep down, may be too stressful for you.

Save us the lecture ... I'm sure we've all given it to ourselves already. Anyone with a mental illness worries if they can "do it" -- do undergrad, do a job, do med school, do life.

Mental illness isn't about being too weak to handle stress ... I can work in a busy urban ER and handle plenty of stress when getting adequate treatment. I can also be suicidally depressed on summer vacation with zero stressors.

I believe that having a mental illness will actually make me a better, more empathetic physician. I'll also be able to recognize untreated mental illness in my patients, no matter what my specialty.

Go read "An Unquiet Mind." And "Darkness Visible" by William Styron.

(And check the DSM IV to make sure you don't have Type I Patronizing Bull*** Disorder.)

 

[tank you]

Save us the lecture ... I'm sure we've all given it to ourselves already. Anyone with a mental illness worries if they can "do it" -- do undergrad, do a job, do med school, do life.

Mental illness isn't about being too weak to handle stress ... I can work in a busy urban ER and handle plenty of stress when getting adequate treatment. I can also be suicidally depressed on summer vacation with zero stressors.

I believe that having a mental illness will actually make me a better, more empathetic physician. I'll also be able to recognize untreated mental illness in my patients, no matter what my specialty.

Go read "An Unquiet Mind." And "Darkness Visible" by William Styron.

(And check the DSM IV to make sure you don't have Type I Patronizing Bull*** Disorder.)

yes, i agree.
mental disorders are not that rare in the first place, the lifetime prevalence of any mental disorder in adults is 50%, and it is much more common to have comorbidity than just a single disorder, meaning that if someone does have a disorder, chances are they also have another one as well.

that being said, having a disorder does not make you any less "worthy" of going to med school. its just like saying "if you are obese, you shouldnt be allowed in med school." both physical and mental problems can be controlled/treated and should not prevent anyone from pursuing medicine.

 

[prana_md]

phew. thought I was crazy. har har har

 

[pagemmapants]

that being said, having a disorder does not make you any less "worthy" of going to med school. its just like saying "if you are obese, you shouldnt be allowed in med school." both physical and mental problems can be controlled/treated and should not prevent anyone from pursuing medicine.

Abo-effing-lutely. Minor mental disorders (i.e. those that would not be harmful to the patient) such as OCD, certain personality disorders, eating disorders, generalized anxiety, etc. have both genetic and environmental components - as does obesity. If these people get excluded from medical school because a) they differ from the societal ideal of "healthy" (which doesn't exist anyway) and b) the stress of medicine might exacerbate the problem, then we should also exclude smokers, caffeine users, anyone who uses any sort of stimulant drug (adderal), and people who drink now and again. We'd soon run out of Drs completely!

 

[velo]

Save us the lecture ... I'm sure we've all given it to ourselves already. Anyone with a mental illness worries if they can "do it" -- do undergrad, do a job, do med school, do life.

Mental illness isn't about being too weak to handle stress ... I can work in a busy urban ER and handle plenty of stress when getting adequate treatment. I can also be suicidally depressed on summer vacation with zero stressors.

I believe that having a mental illness will actually make me a better, more empathetic physician. I'll also be able to recognize untreated mental illness in my patients, no matter what my specialty.

Go read "An Unquiet Mind." And "Darkness Visible" by William Styron.

(And check the DSM IV to make sure you don't have Type I Patronizing Bull*** Disorder.)

Oh spare me the indignation. I have enough first hand experience with mental illness to understand that in that little thing we like to call the "real world" sometimes issues related to mental illness limit people's career options. And I've seen enough people I care about make themselves miserable--trying and failing and trying and failing because they've bitten off more than their mind will allow them to chew.

Are there are very successful people that suffer from very severe depression yet are able to cope? Of course, and bravo to them. But don't sit here and pretend that there are not also people who are unable to cope. And don't do them a diservice by pretending that everyone can be a superstar, when they might be a whole lot happier pursuing a career and a workload that they find managable. You don't want to end up in a situation where you're one or two years worth of med school in debt and only then realize that the reality of the situation is you can't handle the stress/workload/etc and you'd be much happier doing something else.

I'm sorry you took my post personally. I assure you that none of it was directed specifically at anyone posting here. But surely you understand the reality that not everyone is capable of anything.

 

[prana_md]

I didn't take it personally. I took it for the millions of highly-functional mentally ill. Is that Lance Armstrong as your avatar, by the way? Maybe you should go talk to him about how you can't win the TDF without balls.