Another "Should I become a doctor?" thread

I know a 40 year old orthopedic surgeon on the other hand, who trained hard, set up his practice, stayed single, worked very hard, bought a house with 6 garages and now has a

Ferrari 575m
Aston Martin DB9
Porsche GT2
Range RoverSupercharger
Cooper Works Mini
and a golf cart.
He didn't have the high cost of med school, student loan interest rates, and decreased salary that you and the rest of us now deal with. You really can't compare yourself to older docs, they dealt with their debts in a completely different financial environment

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If you were to be payed $0 for treating someone, would you still want to become a doctor? I know a few doctors who hate their job and they went in it for the money!
Would I treat an under-served patient for free out of my own benevolence every now and then (<5% of all patients)? Yes (Aka volunteering). But I am also a rational, materialistic human being who likes money and wants to be compensated for sacrificing their youth, aspects of their personal health, social/family life, etc. to make it to such a position.

I'm a believer of the "work hard now and enjoy life later" motto.
I keep hearing young PCPs say something like "enjoy life now, work hard later".
The latter sounds like the motto of some sort of hippie/juvenile-delinquent.

I hope with all my being that the Republicans win this election and take back control of the government so that Obamacare is replaced. Hopefully we'll revert to a system which rewards hard-work and sacrifice rather than an egalitarian one.
 
I keep hearing young PCPs say something like "enjoy life now, work hard later".
The latter sounds like the motto of some sort of hippie/juvenile-delinquent.
Where on earth are you hearing PCPs say this lol, I've never heard a single physician say this and I've been shadowing for 6 years....
 
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Once you start college and have to study way more than non-science majors, you will know. And if not then, studying for the mcat will guide you. Medicine is about bringing health to others and treating them, and continuously learning. I would say don't worry about it that much, time will only tell. You are so so young and there is such a long journey ahead of you. If you were to be payed $0 for treating someone, would you still want to become a doctor? I know a few doctors who hate their job and they went in it for the money!
YES, i agree, I'm 22 and i am not the same person i was when i was 17-19
 
Where on earth are you hearing PCPs say this lol, I've never heard a single physician say this and I've been shadowing for 6 years....
You're not familiar with the following?:
Physician to ambitious HS student: "medicine is a rigorous path blah blah blah; you won't have any time for hobbies, friends blah blah so make sure you really enjoy your high-school and college years because you'll be working very hard for the rest of your life with little leisure time; consider taking a year off before med-school so you can really enjoy yourself..."
 
You're not familiar with the following?:
Physician to ambitious HS student: "medicine is a rigorous path blah blah blah; you won't have any time for hobbies, friends blah blah so make sure you really enjoy your high-school and college years because you'll be working very hard for the rest of your life with little leisure time; consider taking a year off before med-school so you can really enjoy yourself..."
I thought you were referring to doctors telling you to take it easy in med school/the early part of your career lol. But you can work really hard and enjoy yourself in college. I had an amazing time in college, hung out with friends, traveled, maintained a relationship, and got into med school. It isn't all or nothing, you can work hard AND play hard, as you should in high school and college.
 
Does anyone know of ways to incorporate a medical degree with business/finance other than MD/MBA? I've heard of a few M.Ds working for Goldman Sachs.
 
Does anyone know of ways to incorporate a medical degree with business/finance other than MD/MBA? I've heard of a few M.Ds working for Goldman Sachs.

BCG I know has the 'Bridge to BCG' program
 
Yeah, you can't be about the money and status. Fulfillment is understandable, but if you really want to be rich you should probably go become an investment banker :)
I'm not going to Harvard for undergrad; Goldman Sachs probably isn't going to happen :p. The advantage of medicine over law, business, and finance is that you can go to a crappier school and still make a guaranteed high income after. The aforementioned fields are all extremely risky and unstable. My parents have invested too much time, money, and energy into me so taking a gamble is out of the question.
 
I'm not going to Harvard for undergrad; Goldman Sachs probably isn't going to happen :p. The advantage of medicine over law, business, and finance is that you can go to a crappier school and still make a guaranteed high income after. The aforementioned fields are all extremely risky and unstable. My parents have invested too much time, money, and energy into me so taking a gamble is out of the question.

I thought folks on here say dont go into medicine for the money?
 
I thought folks on here say dont go into medicine for the money?
That's where SDN will always be biased in its views. "Oh, everyone is just soo altruistic! Unless you want to be exploited and live on low wage, don't be a doctor! We have a physician shortage, but hey, we'll find enough selfless people! What is this thing called the free market and supply & demand you speak of?"
 
That's where SDN will always be biased in its views. "Oh, everyone is just soo altruistic! Unless you want to be exploited and live on low wage, don't be a doctor! We have a physician shortage, but hey, we'll find enough selfless people! What is this thing called the free market and supply & demand you speak of?"

I think you've somewhat missed the point of that argument. The thought is that medicine can kinda be pretty crappy from time to time, and if you don't have a strong interest in biology or working with people, then you will grow to hate it and regret doing it. The goal isn't to only draw special altruistic empathetic intelligent superhumans, it's to discourage people who just want a solid paycheck and haven't thought it through entirely yet. If you have and think you'll manage, more power to you. Personally, I think that finance (even at the top multimillionaire levels) sounds soul crushing, so I can't blame you for trying to avoid it.
 
I think you've somewhat missed the point of that argument. The thought is that medicine can kinda be pretty crappy from time to time, and if you don't have a strong interest in biology or working with people, then you will grow to hate it and regret doing it. The goal isn't to only draw special altruistic empathetic intelligent superhumans, it's to discourage people who just want a solid paycheck and haven't thought it through entirely yet. If you have and think you'll manage, more power to you. Personally, I think that finance (even at the top multimillionaire levels) sounds soul crushing, so I can't blame you for trying to avoid it.
What you said can apply to almost every other profession. Working hard and going through hell is not an issue for me. I live to work.
 
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Also, I lookup to physicians like Ben Carson—in fact, I can relate to him very much. Would I pop out like a sore thumb?

On a side note, I'm often times a very miserable person because of the extremely socially-liberal "hippies" that surround me on a daily basis (If you've ever been to a very liberal college campus you'll know what I mean). These are people who smoke weed on a daily basis, exhibit promiscuous behavior, dress like trash, etc. but they're mostly fairly smart, high-IQ people (some significantly more so than me). Some are acquaintances of mine and we generally get along enough to cooperate for class projects and such, but it still bothers me knowing they compromise 70 percent of the student body at my high-school.

My question is, are the majority of med-students (considering that they are millennials) like these "hippie" people I've described? To put this into better perspective, think about that one studious, "goody-goody" kid at your school who dresses in slacks and a dress-shirt everyday wearing a pocket-protector and belt phone-case; that's me.
 
My question is, are the majority of med-students (considering that they are millennials) like these "hippie" people I've described? To put this into better perspective, think about that one studious, "goody-goody" kid at your school who dresses in slacks and a dress-shirt everyday wearing a pocket-protector and belt phone-case; that's me.

Made my day. :bow:
 
Also, I lookup to physicians like Ben Carson—in fact, I can relate to him very much. Would I pop out like a sore thumb?

On a side note, I'm often times a very miserable person because of the extremely socially-liberal "hippies" that surround me on a daily basis (If you've ever been to a very liberal college campus you'll know what I mean). These are people who smoke weed on a daily basis, exhibit promiscuous behavior, dress like trash, etc. but they're mostly fairly smart, high-IQ people (some significantly more so than me). Some are acquaintances of mine and we generally get along enough to cooperate for class projects and such, but it still bothers me knowing they compromise 70 percent of the student body at my high-school.

My question is, are the majority of med-students (considering that they are millennials) like these "hippie" people I've described? To put this into better perspective, think about that one studious, "goody-goody" kid at your school who dresses in slacks and a dress-shirt everyday wearing a pocket-protector and belt phone-case; that's me.
I can't tell if this is a troll or not.
 
Get an MBA from a respectable university. Your post basically boiled down to:

1. Money.
2. Less money?
3. Even less money?
4. But I want money!
5. I'll be celibate if it gets me money!
6. Pls can I has monies?!

Don't be a doctor. Our salaries will very likely decline while debts continue to climb over the next two decades, which does not bode well for your Ferrari plans.
 
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Two words for you: Compound Interest ;)
Continuous compound interest, yum.

Get an MBA from a respectable university. Your post basically boiled down to:

1. Money.
2. Less money?
3. Even less money?
4. But I want money!
5. I'll be celibate if it gets me money!
6. Pls can I has monies?!

Don't be a doctor. Our salaries will very likely decline while debts continue to climb over the next two decades, which does not bode well for your Ferrari plans.
If I knew I could get a MBA from Harvard and work at Goldman Sachs, I would in a heartbeat. Much of my lust for money comes from me purposely depriving myself of "luxuries" other people my age (at least at the school I attend have) e.g smart phones, electronics, etc. It's kind of a motivator for me, but I'm considering reversing the decision as it seems to be having a detrimental effect on me now. Also, higher demand for physicians = decreased compensation, more work hours, and more debt? I really don't get it.
I can't tell if this is a troll or not
I promise you I'm not. This isn't my first thread.
 
I'm no economist, but if you take opportunity cost into account, debt, and the uncertain future of medicine, no knowledgable person would become a doctor out of "lust" for money. There are definitely jobs out their for driven business-minded money-oriented individuals. You just need to find them. Just my two cents.

This is also really not a topic that needs much more discussion on.
 
I'm no economist, but if you take opportunity cost into account, debt, and the uncertain future of medicine, no knowledgable person would become a doctor out of "lust" for money. There are definitely jobs out their for driven business-minded money-oriented individuals. You just need to find them. Just my two cents.

This is also really not a topic that needs much more discussion on.
MD/MBA ?
 
Also, I lookup to physicians like Ben Carson—in fact, I can relate to him very much. Would I pop out like a sore thumb?

Probably, considering that Ben Carson is a liar who doesn't believe in the existence of Dinosaurs...


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I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier!

Screw the Ferrari/Lambo, I'll just buy a replica car for 20 grand. It's not like I plan on speeding or anything, I just like the prestige and looks of the body. :)
 
Continuous compound interest, yum.


If I knew I could get a MBA from Harvard and work at Goldman Sachs, I would in a heartbeat. Much of my lust for money comes from me purposely depriving myself of "luxuries" other people my age (at least at the school I attend have) e.g smart phones, electronics, etc. It's kind of a motivator for me, but I'm considering reversing the decision as it seems to be having a detrimental effect on me now. Also, higher demand for physicians = decreased compensation, more work hours, and more debt? I really don't get it.

I promise you I'm not. This isn't my first thread.

I have a friend who's a financial analyst at Goldman Sachs and the only degree he has is a BS in computer science and an Econ minor (not from Harvard). Plus awesome people skills. Remember in business, it's often who you know, not what you know that gets you far. Just some food for thought.

Also learn to treat yourself a bit - getting that new smartphone isn't really gonna take the edge off of your ambitions. If it does, then you really have to evaluate just how motivated you are to succeed (on any career path really).
 
Also, I lookup to physicians like Ben Carson—in fact, I can relate to him very much. Would I pop out like a sore thumb?

On a side note, I'm often times a very miserable person because of the extremely socially-liberal "hippies" that surround me on a daily basis (If you've ever been to a very liberal college campus you'll know what I mean). These are people who smoke weed on a daily basis, exhibit promiscuous behavior, dress like trash, etc. but they're mostly fairly smart, high-IQ people (some significantly more so than me). Some are acquaintances of mine and we generally get along enough to cooperate for class projects and such, but it still bothers me knowing they compromise 70 percent of the student body at my high-school.

My question is, are the majority of med-students (considering that they are millennials) like these "hippie" people I've described? To put this into better perspective, think about that one studious, "goody-goody" kid at your school who dresses in slacks and a dress-shirt everyday wearing a pocket-protector and belt phone-case; that's me.
OP, your grotesque generalization of "liberals" is a testament to how simple-minded you really are.

You need to get out there, explore, and see the world for what it really is, not through some self-fulfilling, biased lens. Your 'extreme miserability' is just the result of how you're isolating yourself and failing to appreciate and respect different ways of thinking.

No offense, but the world is a lot bigger than the bubble you're living inside. I sincerely hope you will make an attempt to be more open-minded in the future. You're very young and have a lot to learn.
 
Hello SDN. This is my first post.

So here's my situation:

I'm currently a high school junior at a competitive private school. I was a B student during my freshman and first-half of sophomore years; now I'm an A student. Any past feelings of apathy or lethargy are gone.

I now put all my energy into pursing a career path which will yield a large amount of wealth, status, and fulfillment. In other words, if I won the mega-millions lottery tomorrow or ten years from now, I would still pursue a profession because I'd feel as though I didn't earn the right to all that money.

Let's cut to my concerns for medicine (in order from most concerning to least):

#1) The future of medicine as it pertains to the rise of government subsidized health-care
- I've listened to hospital administrators and physicians through my school's entrepreneurship club, and they all agree that Obamacare has had a detrimental effect on the field as a whole.
- Physicians also state that medicine isn't what it used to be with the increasing regulations, lack of independence, decreasing salaries, etc (you probably know more about this than I do).
- Ideally, I would've wanted to bust my tail to get into a good med school, bust my tail to get into a good specialist residency and eventually start my own practice after gaining enough experience.
- Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though the reimbursements for specialists is decreasing as we try to fulfill the demand for primary care physicians.
- This in turn is discouraging to a person who wanted to combine his great business mind with the fulfillment of medicine.
#2) The degradation of medicine as a profession in general
- This short video best summarizes my feelings:
- So in short, (please don't take this as an insult) it seems as though more and more "average intelligence" people are being accepted to medical schools.
- Like Huckabee said, if the brightest people know they can make a lot more money nowadays than the average physician (taking into account debt, malpractice, etc) by going into finance, they'll just do that.
- Those empty spots are then filled by "average" people who in the end become pawns to the system.
- Practicing medicine is an extremely noble profession, but if I know that people are going to try to take advantage of my compassion, I'd be smart enough to be that "business guy" instead.
- I apologize if I sound paranoid or something to that extent.

#3) Decrease in salaries
- I'm assuming this mostly applies to specialties, but I could be wrong.
- This really pertains to the aforementioned concerns
- Let's be honest, if you're a PCP who is being compensated not all that much more than a CNP (again taking into consideration the debt, increased stress, etc), would you honestly still become a doctor if you had half a brain? Probably not. And if you said yes, I think you're a great person for being so selfless but the majority of human beings don't think like that and those people usually are taken advantage of by others.
When it comes to me:
- Yes I would enter medicine for the money; again money without fulfillment is meaningless to me.
- I'm fairly well rounded when it comes to my school curriculum; I don't find one subject to be particularly challenging or less interesting.
- I think I'm a very malleable person; meaning I know I could succeed in law or business school as an alternative if I put my mind to it.
- I don't believe the arbitrary "do what makes you happy" saying. I will be happy doing something where I make good money while still living a life of significance.
- I'm more of an introvert, however I'm competent when it comes to communicating with people, public speaking, etc.

The money aspect:
At this point (if you've made it this far, thank you) you're probably thinking this kid is arrogant and wants to go into medicine for the wrong reasons. That could be true, maybe not. I've been seriously considering medicine in addition to law and business in the back of my head for years now. I've had exposure to all (hospital volunteering, mock trial, family business, CNP mother, etc). I hope to shadow a physician in the near future.

I'm going to give you my perspective on being a physician in my ideal world:

Accepted to med school: four years of busting my tail to get into a good residency

During or after med school (may not be compatible with future plans): Take advantage of the programs offered by the armed forces where you serve as a medical officer for two years give or take; in turn they pay for a good chunk of your debt.

Residency (presumably a selective specialty): Bust my tail for 3+ years on minimum wage pay to gain experience; drive a beat up prius; live in the projects aka misery etc.

Fast forward to ideal end point: I am now 35 years old with my own interventional radiology clinic in a rural/suburb like state. I'm making 300k plus though still working like a dog.
I've decided to remain celibate and abstain from a relationship for the sake of putting all my energy into my career (At the very least I wouldn't have a family for sure). As the old saying goes, "if you want to be a working parent, pursue X. If you want to be a doctor, be a doctor." <--- (we can elaborate on this some other time)

You could call me a workaholic to say the least. I'm living in either a small house or a nicer apartment despite me now being an established physician. There is one (or a few) thing however which keeps me ticking other than my toxic ambition: My brand new (circle one) Porsche 911/Lamborghini Huracan/Ferrari Italia/AMG S63 sitting in the garage (on a lease of course).


The only time I really have to enjoy my money is on the drive to and from the clinic since I'm pretty much working seven days a week.

Other than the cars and associated maintenance costs, I'd be a pretty frugal guy.

So there it is a nutshell. Judge me all you want; I don't judge your hobbies.

So congrats on getting this far! I really do appreciate it.
Here a few closing questions:

1) So what do you do to alleviate the burn out, stress, etc of practicing medicine?

2) I have a friend who's father is an anesthesiologist; these were his very words, "he gets paid a load of money but he literally has no time to enjoy it...don't be an anesthesiologist". After visiting his mansion of a house and seeing the poor guy on his cell phone the entire time talking about his work, I legitimately felt bad for him. I also just found out that the anesthesiologist himself had to go into surgery recently, though for what reason I do not know.
Is this the lifestyle to be expected? At age 60 to be in poor health with literally no time to get your thoughts together? (not that I mind it of course as long as I'm in good shape - aka hitting the gym as much as possible and hormone replacement therapy :) )

3) If you could do it all over, would you do it again?


I probably left out a lot of essential info in this post, but then again it's long enough so I'll stop now.

Thank you for me taking up 10 minutes of your precious time.

Kind Regards

Yes.
 
I thought folks on here say dont go into medicine for the money?

I love the idea of high compensation and the status of being a surgeon, but its more than that to me.. I get excited talking about medicine, im constantly looking for some way to get involved in anything medicine, i love my A&P class..

i think those in it just solely for the money will be weeded out.
 
UPDATE:

I'm now 18 and starting college in the fall. It has been a year-and-a-half since I made this thread. I laughed quite a bit rereading my post and the responses (same with the ridiculous "why do fancy cars have a stigma on sdn" post).

I think logging my change of mindset is important as I develop so I'll do it here.

I still stand by most of what I said in the original post with the exception of a few details:
- My interest in wanting a tremendous amount of money has diminished but it's still subconsciously there
- I'd never want to lease or own any new car especially any of the exotics I mentioned originally

How I've changed:

I'm now a pre-dental student as I've realized it is what medicine once was. I sometimes have pangs to medicine; usually in my EMT class. In an odd way I like the workaholic lifestyle of medicine and would probably try to apply it to dentistry. The only time I consider medicine is when my ego drops in EMT class when I realize how ****ty some people have it and how quickly everything you work for can disappear. That being said, depending on if my personality changes and how I perform in college I'd still be open to medicine.
 
UPDATE:

I'm now 18 and starting college in the fall. It has been a year-and-a-half since I made this thread. I laughed quite a bit rereading my post and the responses (same with the ridiculous "why do fancy cars have a stigma on sdn" post).

I think logging my change of mindset is important as I develop so I'll do it here.

I still stand by most of what I said in the original post with the exception of a few details:
- My interest in wanting a tremendous amount of money has diminished but it's still subconsciously there
- I'd never want to lease or own any new car especially any of the exotics I mentioned originally

How I've changed:

I'm now a pre-dental student as I've realized it is what medicine once was. I sometimes have pangs to medicine; usually in my EMT class. In an odd way I like the workaholic lifestyle of medicine and would probably try to apply it to dentistry. The only time I consider medicine is when my ego drops in EMT class when I realize how ****ty some people have it and how quickly everything you work for can disappear. That being said, depending on if my personality changes and how I perform in college I'd still be open to medicine.
You do know most dental schools are even more expensive than medical schools and compensation is much less. AND...just because...my dentist drive a classic Jag. He's had it since he got out of dental school back in '79. :p
 
You do know most dental schools are even more expensive than medical schools and compensation is much less. AND...just because...my dentist drive a classic Jag. He's had it since he got out of dental school back in '79. :p
I never head that before about the tuition; I wonder why it is. Time to venture into the Dental forums. Like I said, money is losing value to me now.
 
I never head that before about the tuition; I wonder why it is. Time to venture into the Dental forums. Like I said, money is losing value to me now.
So you just arbitrarily decided you wanted to be a dentist and you haven't even checked out the dental forums here on SDN? You should thoroughly investigate any career you are considering. Not saying you shouldn't be a dentist or that it wouldn't be a good choice for you...but many of the issues you sited in your original post about medicine are also true of dentistry.
 
So you just arbitrarily decided you wanted to be a dentist and you haven't even checked out the dental forums here on SDN? You should thoroughly investigate any career you are considering. Not saying you shouldn't be a dentist or that it wouldn't be a good choice for you...but many of the issues you sited in your original post about medicine are also true of dentistry.
I chose dentistry because of the autonomy and opportunity for entrepreneurship—things that medicine lost.
 
I chose dentistry because of the autonomy and opportunity for entrepreneurship—things that medicine lost.
You can have autonomy and opportunity in medicine if you're willing to either hire others (PAs, NPs) or work in a field that is kind to cash-only.
 
I never head that before about the tuition; I wonder why it is. Time to venture into the Dental forums. Like I said, money is losing value to me now.

Just gonna put this out there, you should probably look into dschool tuition costs and the amount of student debt that you get shoved into before making a decision. Unless you come from a rich family/have a scholarship covering a big portion of your tuition/make reasonable school choices, it might be a long time before you see the autonomy and entrepreneurship that you want to find..
 
Just gonna put this out there, you should probably look into dschool tuition costs and the amount of student debt that you get shoved into before making a decision. Unless you come from a rich family/have a scholarship covering a big portion of your tuition/make reasonable school choices, it might be a long time before you see the autonomy and entrepreneurship that you want to find..
You're right. Right now I'm just going to focus on getting the best grades possible in college assuming shadowing both dentists and doctors can wait until the summer after freshman year. Where I live it's not acceptable to shadow just for the hell of it—especially considering that shadowing isn't the norm.
 
this thread is alive?

I thought it died like Harambe
 
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