Annoyed by my school's low-yield curriculum...

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Starting school in July. Just didn't feel like googling the test format on my phone
Sorry if my response appears a little bit strong... I see med student in your profile, so I assumed you started school already.

My 'guesstimate' that missing 10+ questions might cost one 12-15 points was based on statistical regression analysis I did when I was preparing for the exam by using my scores on the 200 questions NBME self-assessment tests. As I said, it's a guesstimate and no one knows how the National Board of Medical Examiners grade the exam as it is the case for many things in med school. I mean the system in place is very opaque.

All I can tell you, if you are going to attend a US school, and you want to keep your options open as far as competitive specialties, you better learn these minutiae. If you are heading to the Caribbean, I will be praying for you.:p

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I think we're missing each other on the interpretation of "minutiae".

Personally, I don't group the details from Robbins (though I use medium Robbins) into what I consider minutiae, as I do believe the more information the better in that aspect, but when we have faculty rambling on about their research or uber-specialized clinicians teaching things that are outside scope (per their own colleagues) for anyone below fellowship level, I do tend to get frustrated. I can see where further down the road you'd look back and say it's all important and you wish you paid attention more, but at this point, I need to focus my energy on building a foundation, and often times our lectures will leap from basic sciences to applied research or clinical skills that are too far beyond us.
Ah ****. good point.
I'm starting to get confused by these threads.
Yeah, was annoyed by that too. Advice I got from another lecturer, was to be selective lol, and skip through the like..statistical analyses of whatever data that got them way to excited. I appreciate that stuff now, but the context and environment I'm in now is so different. And yea that struggle was real. Building a foundation. Learning a new language. At a really, really uncomfortable pace sometimes.
whargle.jpg



Gawd, the more I get lost in these threads, the more it reminds me how hard it used to be. I think I've said that like..too many times to count.

OP it seems like this continues to be an issue for you but you never actually change your study habits or do anything about it. You asked for things that are working for other people: here it goes. I do whatever I want for the first few weeks of the block (for me that's reading textbooks and doing FC). I do watch the lectures but don't worry about memorizing stuff from them. 4 days before the test I study the lectures and do questions from Robbins and Rx. I am doing very well and I'm much less annoyed with lectures that suck because I know how to learn on my own. I have also found that a lot of the minute only SEEMS like minute because its just a random bullet point on a slide with no context or explanation. However, after a paragraph explaining why said minute is important in Robbins, it is no longer minute and just another concept to me. Also when you see the same minute fact pop up in the textbook, lecture, FC, Rx... you realize that its probably important. And if it doesn't pop up in another source I probably won't remember it anyways for the test much less long term.

TLDR: lectures suck, read a book
I had a similar approach later on, after having tried a million different other things.
It required going through multiple different resources, not that I read textbooks from cover to cover.
I just picked out from them what helped me understand things, the fastest way possible. Then went through lectures.
If they were good lectures, it just saved time all around, I didn't need a book to translate it for me or give background knowledge.
then did questions. Some of my friends had other systems. Like, one kept a whiteboard and did mapping. Then I later bought a whiteboard..

I am 100% serious. I can't remember any of my lectures from the first two years at all.

Also, you seem like a great student advocate. Props to you for being forward-thinking.

I memorized the basics, like everyone else did.
For 'non-basic's' I guess, it was about understanding it at least a bit and moving on. There's no just time.
But I ended up seeing a lot of the same material come again later on rotations. It jogs your memory. It's not effort after a while to remember certain things with the repetition. I couldn't quote you specific lectures I had, but I can remember the things that came up year after year that seemed so irrelevant when I first saw it. And having previous exposure is always much easier than going from scratch.

Lol xD yea he does seem like a great student advocate.
I agree with that.

My point though is that most answers I recall are from board review resources and not specifically from lectures. Your first question I can hear Dr. Sattar in my head, McBurney point from First Aid, Cri-du-Chat Chromosome 5 from the chromosome table somewhere in FA.

I think some review resources just do a good job presenting material in an organized way and then I could fill in the gaps with textbooks/Google. For example, I remember my school's lectures on vasculitides and renal diseases were an absolute trainwreck. FA divided up the vasculitides by vessel-size which made it so much easier to learn and remember long-term. Might just be my personal learning style.
To each their own.
i was in a similar space, but went through the lectures anyway or blitzed through them like Affiche if they were like..200 slides on Derm or something (I feel bad that I don't care for Derm.. I can't explain it, it just gives me the heebee jeebees)

I see lectures differently now, only because 20/20 in hindsight. Clinicians who come in to do some of the lectures - are clinicians. they're not trained to teach, so you get variable quality. However, particularly the specialists, my take, is that they're meant to tell you what's current clinical practice in their field or inform you of imminent important changes. Textbooks often go out of date, hence there needing to be so many new editions. Someone had a vent in this thread or the other thread about everything becoming obsolete so quickly. It's true to a degree. So hence the purpose of the lectures, the clinicians making them are meant to keep track of what the relevant changes are, and what's currently best.
 
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Sorry if my response appears a little bit strong... I see med student in your profile, so I assumed you started school already.

My 'guesstimate' that missing 10+ questions might cost one 12-15 points was based on statistical regression analysis I did when I was preparing for the exam by using my scores on the 200 questions NBME self-assessment tests. As I said, it's a guesstimate and no one knows how the National Board of Medical Examiners grade the exam as it is the case for many things in med school. I mean the system in place is very opaque.

All I can tell you, if you are going to attend a US school, and you want to keep your options open as far as competitive specialties, you better learn these minutiae. If you are heading to the Caribbean, I will be praying for you.:p

Haha nope, thankfully going to a well established US MD school. Figured I would focus on learning all the details about step 1 once I start school
 
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I learned only class material until 30 days before step 1 when I pulled out first aid. I scored 260+...

Also just because one person who went into derm endorses using only board material remember that some people have different baseline critical thinking/test taking abilities. I think you'll see an overwhelming support from people who scored well on the exam and have done well in school and beyond that the stuff you learn in class is probably worth sitting down and learning for both the exam and life.
 
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I learned only class material until 30 days before step 1 when I pulled out first aid. I scored 260+...

Also just because one person who went into derm endorses using only board material remember that some people have different baseline critical thinking/test taking abilities. I think you'll see an overwhelming support from people who scored well on the exam and have done well in school and beyond that the stuff you learn in class is probably worth sitting down and learning for both the exam and life.
There is published data on the resources high Step scorers use for Boards study. They use a wide variety of study aids. Weaker scorers tend to use only lecture material.
 
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There is published data on the resources high Step scorers use for Boards study. They use a wide variety of study aids. Weaker scorers tend to use only lecture material.

Can you please link when you have a moment?
 
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Are you talking Boards and Beyond? God I wish I would have used it second year, its like pathoma for everything that isnt pathology.

Indeed.

He actually goes way more in depth than Pathoma as well, which makes it a much better resource. Pathoma is a good resource to get your bearings but it has nowhere near enough info...
 
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I entered med school eager to learn and initially had no problem absorbing whatever material my professors presented. No matter how low-yield or esoteric it seemed, I diligently learned it cold. Now, as I'm nearing the end of M1 and starting to think about the beast that looms in the horizon (Step 1), I find myself getting more and more fed up with my professor's B.S. lecture materials. Some classes are worse than others, but on the whole I really wish I had gone to a school that "teaches to the boards" more. Increasingly, I find myself looking at the in-house lecture notes and thinking to myself "Really?? Who gives a ****..." I'm not burned out either, because, if I could have it my way, unfettered by the shackles of my school's curriculum, I would happily watch Pathoma, read FA, and do Brosencephalon Anki all day...

I go to a true P/F school, and I'm really tempted to overhaul my study approach at this point. Going into M2, I might just disregard school as much as possible while still passing and spend the vast majority of my study time on board books and qbanks. Has anyone else done this? I want to hear from the people who "subverted" the system in this manner and did well. I know of at least one M4 at my school who did the bare minimum in school, spent all day everyday doing board-style questions, and got a 265 on Step 1. But, at the same time, I have read countless experience reports on SDN of high-scorers who swear that doing well in class in the first 2 years was the best preparation.

/rant

Any words of wisdom?
 
Just some perspective. Everyone will have to take board examinations to remain certified in their specialt(ies) for the rest of their medical careers. Studying for those tests and passing them does make one good at taking care of patients.
 
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Just some perspective. Everyone will have to take board examinations to remain certified in their specialt(ies) for the rest of their medical careers. Studying for those tests and passing them does make one good at taking care of patients.
Just to follow up on this, something I have forgotten to mention in previous posts is that life does not end at Step I. I can guarantee you that you will be pimped on rounds/rotations on stuff like these real life examples told to me by one of my OMSIII's:

"what are some of the causes of eclampsia"?

"treatment for X STD is patient is allergic to [1st line treatment]?"

or my favorite, "where's the Zonule of Zinn?"
 
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Just to follow up on this, something I have forgotten to mention in previous posts is that life does not end at Step I. I can guarantee you that you will be pimped on rounds/rotations on stuff like these real life examples told to me by one of my OMSIII's:

"what are some of the causes of eclampsia"?

"treatment for X STD is patient is allergic to [1st line treatment]?"

or my favorite, "where's the Zonule of Zinn?"
I think "pimping" or whatever one wants to call is a good teaching tool. Of course, it should never be mean-spirited or with the attention to humiliate or anything of the sort, but if one can't be presented with questions or problems and at the very least describe their thought processes of what and why they think that, it is hard to assess their degree of understanding. Plus, in my own personal experience, if I got it wrong, I never forgot it afterwards.
 
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I think "pimping" or whatever one wants to call is a good teaching tool. Of course, it should never be mean-spirited or with the attention to humiliate or anything of the sort, but if one can't be presented with questions or problems and at the very least describe their thought processes of what and why they think that, it is hard to assess their degree of understanding. Plus, in my own personal experience, if I got it wrong, I never forgot it afterwards.
100% agree. I can still remember questions I didn't know the answers for from my oral thesis qualifier exam!
Unfortunately, there are a lot of special snowflakes who nowadays think that any sort of pimping is bad, because they are offended by somehow showing publicly that they don't know something.
 
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100% agree. I can still remember questions I didn't know the answers for from my oral thesis qualifier exam!
Unfortunately, there are a lot of special snowflakes who nowadays think that any sort of pimping is bad, because they are offended by somehow showing publicly that they don't know something.
Hmm, people should realize a good dose of humility is a good thing. There are often times kids get sick and we don't have an answer up front. I tell families what I think it could be and what I think we should do to figure it out, but I have no issue telling families when I don't know the answer. I honestly have no clue whether or not they want to hear me say "I don't know", but I'm always honest with them and have not intention to blow smoke up their butt to make me feel better about myself.
 
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medical school is about getting an email in march of 4th year that says "congratulations! you have matched!"
 
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I entered med school eager to learn and initially had no problem absorbing whatever material my professors presented.

So your school is a disappointment, you're bored out of your mind, your faculty members don't know jack and overall they should be genuflecting when they come into your presence. Yet, instead of asking your professors questions about the basic medical sciences and Step 1 content, you post them on SDN for perfect strangers to "answer" and expect a high return on your "investment". For this you pay $50K/year. Yup. that about sums up our current culture.

Take a look at the Step 1 forum on SDN. Answer some of the questions that your colleagues are asking with regard to basic medical sciences. Look for the posts that reference the classic texts like Robbins & Cotran, Janeway, Ross & Pawlina, Purves, Katzung, etc. You don't see any do you? Just a bunch of horse manure about FA, eh? yeah, they're geniuses too.

For you precious little snowflakes wanting an MD Degree in 3 years or less, and a 260 Step 1 Score in 144 characters on Twitter, be forewarned: you are doomed once you enter the practice of medicine. The hospital admins who hold MBA MHA, MSHA Degrees, know precisely how unprepared physicians are in the medical business landscape. They have little regard for the needs of their employed physicians and you showing up fresh out of medical school clueless and lacking passion will reinforce the message in their minds: they own you. And you won't be able to do a darn thing about them because they've got your number. They know how little you know and they also know the debt you possess.

In the unlikely chance you decide to bust your ass studying the core material and minutiae that will make you smarter, greater and more talented than physicians like Dr. Siddhartha Mukherjee, Dr. Atul Gawande, Dr Paul Kalanithi, Dr Vincent DeVita, Dr. Abraham Verghese and other puff balls, you are aiding the executives of health care field and government bureaucrats

Third Party Payers and CMS are chasing physicians out of the profession with their unethical business practices. Yet medical students like you act like there is no reason for you to step up your game.

Luckily some of us know better and are itching to push back on those bastards for the sake of our patients, for the love of medicine and because we are the future of medicine. Hospital Corporation of America, EmCare, Blue Cross, Medicare/Medicaid, Veterans Administration and the rest should be taken down. It will require physicians with fire, heart and soul. If only we had more of them.
 
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I didn't even know exam master was a thing. 2400 questions.
A lot of Exam Master questions are good, several are bad. Granted, I've only used it for the current courses I'm in (M1 now) and they weren't that great. Maybe they're better for the more high-yield organ systems? IDK.
 
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So your school is a disappointment, you're bored out of your mind, your faculty members don't know jack and overall they should be genuflecting when they come into your presence. Yet, instead of asking your professors questions about the basic medical sciences and Step 1 content, you post them on SDN for perfect strangers to "answer" and expect a high return on your "investment". For this you pay $50K/year. Yup. that about sums up our current culture.

Take a look at the Step 1 forum on SDN. Answer some of the questions that your colleagues are asking with regard to basic medical sciences. Look for the posts that reference the classic texts like Robbins & Cotran, Janeway, Ross & Pawlina, Purves, Katzung, etc. You don't see any do you? Just a bunch of horse manure about FA, eh? yeah, they're geniuses too.

For you precious little snowflakes wanting an MD Degree in 3 years or less, and a 260 Step 1 Score in 144 characters on Twitter, be forewarned: you are doomed once you enter the practice of medicine. The hospital admins who hold MBA MHA, MSHA Degrees, know precisely how unprepared physicians are in the medical business landscape. They have little regard for the needs of their employed physicians and you showing up fresh out of medical school clueless and lacking passion will reinforce the message in their minds: they own you. And you won't be able to do a darn thing about them because they've got your number. They know how little you know and they also know the debt you possess.

In the unlikely chance you decide to bust your ass studying the core material and minutiae that will make you smarter, greater and more talented than physicians like Dr. Siddhartha Mukherjee, Dr. Atul Gawande, Dr Paul Kalanithi, Dr Vincent DeVita, Dr. Abraham Verghese and other puff balls, you are aiding the executives of health care field and government bureaucrats

Third Party Payers and CMS are chasing physicians out of the profession with their unethical business practices. Yet medical students like you act like there is no reason for you to step up your game.

Luckily some of us know better and are itching to push back on those bastards for the sake of our patients, for the love of medicine and because we are the future of medicine. Hospital Corporation of America, EmCare, Blue Cross, Medicare/Medicaid, Veterans Administration and the rest should be taken down. It will require physicians with fire, heart and soul. If only we had more of them.
How have you not been banned yet?
 
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So your school is a disappointment, you're bored out of your mind, your faculty members don't know jack and overall they should be genuflecting when they come into your presence. Yet, instead of asking your professors questions about the basic medical sciences and Step 1 content, you post them on SDN for perfect strangers to "answer" and expect a high return on your "investment". For this you pay $50K/year. Yup. that about sums up our current culture.

Take a look at the Step 1 forum on SDN. Answer some of the questions that your colleagues are asking with regard to basic medical sciences. Look for the posts that reference the classic texts like Robbins & Cotran, Janeway, Ross & Pawlina, Purves, Katzung, etc. You don't see any do you? Just a bunch of horse manure about FA, eh? yeah, they're geniuses too.

For you precious little snowflakes wanting an MD Degree in 3 years or less, and a 260 Step 1 Score in 144 characters on Twitter, be forewarned: you are doomed once you enter the practice of medicine. The hospital admins who hold MBA MHA, MSHA Degrees, know precisely how unprepared physicians are in the medical business landscape. They have little regard for the needs of their employed physicians and you showing up fresh out of medical school clueless and lacking passion will reinforce the message in their minds: they own you. And you won't be able to do a darn thing about them because they've got your number. They know how little you know and they also know the debt you possess.

In the unlikely chance you decide to bust your ass studying the core material and minutiae that will make you smarter, greater and more talented than physicians like Dr. Siddhartha Mukherjee, Dr. Atul Gawande, Dr Paul Kalanithi, Dr Vincent DeVita, Dr. Abraham Verghese and other puff balls, you are aiding the executives of health care field and government bureaucrats

Third Party Payers and CMS are chasing physicians out of the profession with their unethical business practices. Yet medical students like you act like there is no reason for you to step up your game.

Luckily some of us know better and are itching to push back on those bastards for the sake of our patients, for the love of medicine and because we are the future of medicine. Hospital Corporation of America, EmCare, Blue Cross, Medicare/Medicaid, Veterans Administration and the rest should be taken down. It will require physicians with fire, heart and soul. If only we had more of them.
Your rant makes no sense....
 
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So your school is a disappointment, you're bored out of your mind, your faculty members don't know jack and overall they should be genuflecting when they come into your presence. Yet, instead of asking your professors questions about the basic medical sciences and Step 1 content, you post them on SDN for perfect strangers to "answer" and expect a high return on your "investment". For this you pay $50K/year. Yup. that about sums up our current culture.

Take a look at the Step 1 forum on SDN. Answer some of the questions that your colleagues are asking with regard to basic medical sciences. Look for the posts that reference the classic texts like Robbins & Cotran, Janeway, Ross & Pawlina, Purves, Katzung, etc. You don't see any do you? Just a bunch of horse manure about FA, eh? yeah, they're geniuses too.

For you precious little snowflakes wanting an MD Degree in 3 years or less, and a 260 Step 1 Score in 144 characters on Twitter, be forewarned: you are doomed once you enter the practice of medicine. The hospital admins who hold MBA MHA, MSHA Degrees, know precisely how unprepared physicians are in the medical business landscape. They have little regard for the needs of their employed physicians and you showing up fresh out of medical school clueless and lacking passion will reinforce the message in their minds: they own you. And you won't be able to do a darn thing about them because they've got your number. They know how little you know and they also know the debt you possess.

In the unlikely chance you decide to bust your ass studying the core material and minutiae that will make you smarter, greater and more talented than physicians like Dr. Siddhartha Mukherjee, Dr. Atul Gawande, Dr Paul Kalanithi, Dr Vincent DeVita, Dr. Abraham Verghese and other puff balls, you are aiding the executives of health care field and government bureaucrats

Third Party Payers and CMS are chasing physicians out of the profession with their unethical business practices. Yet medical students like you act like there is no reason for you to step up your game.

Luckily some of us know better and are itching to push back on those bastards for the sake of our patients, for the love of medicine and because we are the future of medicine. Hospital Corporation of America, EmCare, Blue Cross, Medicare/Medicaid, Veterans Administration and the rest should be taken down. It will require physicians with fire, heart and soul. If only we had more of them.


Well damn son..

Where dey do dat at???
 
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The second approach was to prioritize classwork and do board review only once everything was done. Most of the board review I did happened after taking the school exam.

The second approach not only gets me better grades on exams (doesn't matter, at true P/F), but it makes reviewing with boards materials afterwards much easier. Months later, I remember boards material (and the minutiae) far better for blocks in which I took approach #2.

Take a look at the SDN Step 1 Forum. Most of the questions regarding content have FA as "the source" when it comes to understanding basic medical sciences content.
 
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New SDN drinking game, drink every time you see the word "snowflake."
 
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"Snowflake" has become the new catch-all insult, supplanting "hipster." Use it to describe anyone you disagree with. Apparently.
 
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You're not going to know what is minutiae and what is not as a medical student, not until you start getting into the practice of medicine.

"Snowflake" has become the new catch-all insult, supplanting "hipster." Use it to describe anyone you disagree with. Apparently.

Don't forget "cuck", a political favorite.
 
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I can sense the ethanol toxicity right now!

ethanol toxicity? wut dat?

that would require they read a biochemistry textbook and that'll never happen. ROFLMBO

you snowflakes kids are adorable
 
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So just to clarify, the best approach to doing well in medical school, especially in boards/shelves/exams etc. is to study really hard and do well in classes to establish the essential foundation? And only use the boards review books during dedicated study period?

I'm reading a lot of conflicting advice from medical students here that people studied boards materials with their class notes in MS1/MS2. That never made any sense to me and sounded way too much work than necessary. Giving 100% focus and effort into class notes only and doing well in class exams to set up the foundation makes sense and simplifies things but I don't know.
 
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So just to clarify, the best approach to doing well in medical school, especially in boards/shelves/exams etc. is to study really hard and do well in classes to establish the essential foundation? And only use the boards review books during dedicated study period?

I'm reading a lot of conflicting advice from medical students here that people studied boards materials with their class notes in MS1/MS2. That never made any sense to me and sounded way too much work than necessary. Giving 100% focus and effort into class notes only and doing well in class exams to set up the foundation makes sense and simplifies things but I don't know.
I mean it's obviously going to vary tremendously from school to school hence the 'conflicting' advice.

You could just look at FA after your first exam and see how much was/wasn't covered
 
So just to clarify, the best approach to doing well in medical school, especially in boards/shelves/exams etc. is to study really hard and do well in classes to establish the essential foundation? And only use the boards review books during dedicated study period?

I'm reading a lot of conflicting advice from medical students here that people studied boards materials with their class notes in MS1/MS2. That never made any sense to me and sounded way too much work than necessary. Giving 100% focus and effort into class notes only and doing well in class exams to set up the foundation makes sense and simplifies things but I don't know.
I am confused about this as well. Maybe this is where talking to upper class men at your specific school would be better than SDN
 
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Part of medical school is finding out what works for you.

It's almost like describing how different surgeons are in their approach to examining a patient to IM or FM. DDX approaches are different as well, EM docs used to tell me to avoid the long list of ddx that IM does, i.e. 'its not a competition to make lists.." But I would have never said that to IM as a student, that their ddx's are pointless lists. What works for one field of medicine, will not always work for another. what works for one medical student, may not work for another. eventually you can use that feeling to choose what to specialize in. Unfortunately, as pre-clinical students, you're pretty much viewed as one undifferentiated, huge glob. it's much more streamlined (ish) once you get to rotations, then residency and beyond. But until then, you can feel a bit rudderless.

Try to use MS1/2 to constantly try new methods and then adjust accordingly until it hits the sweet spot. The underlying idea is efficiency - not how much time spent, but quality of time, to avoid burn out. Sometimes it's about using other materials to understand the basics then go through the class lectures to absorb the things that add to your foundation (the rest of the house, the muscles/flesh on the bones). Everyone has different approaches to this. Consider what your classmates or upperclassmen are doing if you need inspiration. Try it. But give it a limited time - if it's clearly not working, drop it like a hot potato and move on. No second chances.

The real test in the long term, is how well you do and how confident you are once you're out practicing medicine. But you won't have a real feel for this until you're out on the wards seeing real patients for long periods of time. In the short term, it's your understanding of materials within short time frames. i.e. did you understand the material and concepts and did it cost you the least amount of time? are you doing better on test questions (i.e. your schools or UWORLD etc.).

If you can find a great method that is efficient, is tried and true for you, that stays with you forever. It makes life so much easier in residency if there's something that requires you to learn something new or relearn something. Additionally, you'll already have tried the different resources out there - you know which ones were helpful to you during medical school.

If there's one thing that can be distilled from this thread is to use a variety of resources. An analogy to variety would be like - variety in your diet to be healthy. same with your medical knowledge diet.

You'll find the same on rotations (as if life couldn't be anymore confusing) - one attending will have different opinions to another or different 'favorite' presentation style/structure or brands of medications. there is a standard, but there's a degree of variation as well. We all eat food, but we have different preferences or tastes. But you wouldn't abandon protein or greens in your diet entirely. similarly, there are things you probably shouldn't cut out in your repertoire of materials.

I would never say, 'don't use textbooks they're useless' they are important too. But that said, by the time they're published, some of the materials may already be out of date (research is always expanding). And textbooks tend to be either quite general, or a bit slanted in the editor's or author's pov. however, good textbooks are often widely accepted or reflect some widely accepted opinions and approaches. to find out what is common practice or what quirks are done in your particular medical school and it's attached hospitals (that you will be part of during rotations and possibly as a resident if you stay with them) you need the lectures.

to clarify, a cardiologist giving a lecture will provide additional information to a textbook written by a physician. to put it into perspective, you could be an IM resident later. You'll need to get used to making referrals to cardiology, you'll have to be at least a little familiar with what's commonly accepted by cardiologists where you're working to make a proper referral or execute their plans before they review your patient. if they need to. Those referral or consults are often incredibly short too. Obviously, there's some learning you can do on the job and do better referrals over time (which is part of the point to residency in the early years), but it helps you a lot if you have good core knowledge begin with. Or some familiarity.

with talking to upperclassman, you'd probably get a different opinion depending on who you talk to, from every single one (it can be annoying). that said, if there's a notes god or goddess that made strong notes or anki's tailored to the class, I would use that. If there's tricks and tips to doing better in a particular exam or course - do that. your classmates and those above you are also an important 'resource'. It's no different to helping each other out and work as a team with your colleagues in the future.

As Goro stated earlier - you're adult learners. there's freedom in how you approach the resources. It could be that you do board materials first (like pathoma or FA) then do lectures, or the opposite, lectures first than that stuff after. You could use textbooks and grill in the basics, then listen/watch lectures at top speed. Try a few methods, within reason, and see what works better. then abandon one and go for the other. Again, experiment.

TL;DR: everyone's a different colored crayon in the box. it can be too early to tell in the preclinical years which one you are. it's more evident later when you pick a specialty.
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For now, efficiency is the goal (least amount of time spent to learn something and do well on questions as a preclinical year). Experiment to find out what works best for you in terms of study habits and resources. Everyone will give you different advice - but what worked for them, may not work for you. Still, try to maintain a healthy variety your diet of medical resources. it does the body good over the long term. There's no easy way outs, if there was, we wouldn't have long threads debating it.
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Edit: edited for grammar (or tried to)
 
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I entered med school eager to learn and initially had no problem absorbing whatever material my professors presented. No matter how low-yield or esoteric it seemed, I diligently learned it cold. Now, as I'm nearing the end of M1 and starting to think about the beast that looms in the horizon (Step 1), I find myself getting more and more fed up with my professor's B.S. lecture materials. Some classes are worse than others, but on the whole I really wish I had gone to a school that "teaches to the boards" more. Increasingly, I find myself looking at the in-house lecture notes and thinking to myself "Really?? Who gives a ****..." I'm not burned out either, because, if I could have it my way, unfettered by the shackles of my school's curriculum, I would happily watch Pathoma, read FA, and do Brosencephalon Anki all day...

I go to a true P/F school, and I'm really tempted to overhaul my study approach at this point. Going into M2, I might just disregard school as much as possible while still passing and spend the vast majority of my study time on board books and qbanks. Has anyone else done this? I want to hear from the people who "subverted" the system in this manner and did well. I know of at least one M4 at my school who did the bare minimum in school, spent all day everyday doing board-style questions, and got a 265 on Step 1. But, at the same time, I have read countless experience reports on SDN of high-scorers who swear that doing well in class in the first 2 years was the best preparation.

/rant

Any words of wisdom?
Second year I only took notes based on the recording on what seemed high-yield for the in school tests and then spent the rest of my time for boards. Consistently I scored 1 or 2 standard deviations below the class on the in-house exams, but I scored 1 or 2 standard deviations above the average for the practice board exams they gave us. No regrets.
 
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So, I'm not here to argue right or wrong methods etc. etc. we could go for hours on that.
Because everyone has their own method that worked for them. And that's okay. But if the question is what's the reason behinds some of the things medical schools do? why do they teach what they teach. the answer is that the people teaching you are attendings/doctors, not board exam prep tutors. they're attempting to teach or guide you towards treating patients (theoretically anyway). how you choose to navigate that material is up to you.

exams or boards serve as one measure of how well you're doing (whether to your school or residency later). because there has to be a way for schools and programs to differentiate between all the candidates they have. Particularly the competitive ones. they're also important in incentivizing learning, among other things. but I wouldn't confuse those exams with replacing patients on the wards or the job later necessarily.

my point is to at least consider what happens after grad.
not trying to make a judgment here.

I mean, for example, if you're a resident and who felt that doing 'boards studying only' helped you practice medicine, that's fair enough. (does beg the same rhetorical question posted earlier in thread - what's the point to the first two years of medical school? why not just do only board prep and have everyone subscribe to kaplan or something..). But I just don't see many residents saying this for the moment (I could be wrong).

but if you're a student genuinely questioning things, then consider also (on top of everything else) what kind of doctor you wish to be in the future. that said..it is really hard to conceptualize this before you even enter the wards or touch patients regularly.
 
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Part of medical school is finding out what works for you.

It's almost like describing how different surgeons are in their approach to examining a patient to IM or FM. DDX approaches are different as well, EM docs used to tell me to avoid the long list of ddx that IM does, i.e. 'its not a competition to make lists.." But I would have never said that to IM as a student, that their ddx's are pointless lists. What works for one field of medicine, will not always work for another. what works for one medical student, may not work for another. eventually you can use that feeling to choose what to specialize in. Unfortunately, as pre-clinical students, you're pretty much viewed as one undifferentiated, huge glob. it's much more streamlined (ish) once you get to rotations, then residency and beyond. But until then, you can feel a bit rudderless.

Try to use MS1/2 to constantly try new methods and then adjust accordingly until it hits the sweet spot. The underlying idea is efficiency - not how much time spent, but quality of time, to avoid burn out. Sometimes it's about using other materials to understand the basics then go through the class lectures to absorb the things that add to your foundation (the rest of the house, the muscles/flesh on the bones). Everyone has different approaches to this. Consider what your classmates or upperclassmen are doing if you need inspiration. Try it. But give it a limited time - if it's clearly not working, drop it like a hot potato and move on. No second chances.

The real test in the long term, is how well you do and how confident you are once you're out practicing medicine. But you won't have a real feel for this until you're out on the wards seeing real patients for long periods of time. In the short term, it's your understanding of materials within short time frames. i.e. did you understand the material and concepts and did it cost you the least amount of time? are you doing better on test questions (i.e. your schools or UWORLD etc.).

If you can find a great method that is efficient, is tried and true for you, that stays with you forever. It makes life so much easier in residency if there's something that requires you to learn something new or relearn something. Additionally, you'll already have tried the different resources out there - you know which ones were helpful to you during medical school.

If there's one thing that can be distilled from this thread is to use a variety of resources. An analogy to variety would be like - variety in your diet to be healthy. same with your medical knowledge diet.

You'll find the same on rotations (as if life couldn't be anymore confusing) - one attending will have different opinions to another or different 'favorite' presentation style/structure or brands of medications. there is a standard, but there's a degree of variation as well. We all eat food, but we have different preferences or tastes. But you wouldn't abandon protein or greens in your diet entirely. similarly, there are things you probably shouldn't cut out in your repertoire of materials.

I would never say, 'don't use textbooks they're useless' they are important too. But that said, by the time they're published, some of the materials may already be out of date (research is always expanding). And textbooks tend to be either quite general, or a bit slanted in the editor's or author's pov. however, good textbooks are often widely accepted or reflect some widely accepted opinions and approaches. to find out what is common practice or what quirks are done in your particular medical school and it's attached hospitals (that you will be part of during rotations and possibly as a resident if you stay with them) you need the lectures.

to clarify, a cardiologist giving a lecture will provide additional information to a textbook written by a physician. to put it into perspective, you could be an IM resident later. You'll need to get used to making referrals to cardiology, you'll have to be at least a little familiar with what's commonly accepted by cardiologists where you're working to make a proper referral or execute their plans before they review your patient. if they need to. Those referral or consults are often incredibly short too. Obviously, there's some learning you can do on the job and do better referrals over time (which is part of the point to residency in the early years), but it helps you a lot if you have good core knowledge begin with. Or some familiarity.

with talking to upperclassman, you'd probably get a different opinion depending on who you talk to, from every single one (it can be annoying). that said, if there's a notes god or goddess that made strong notes or anki's tailored to the class, I would use that. If there's tricks and tips to doing better in a particular exam or course - do that. your classmates and those above you are also an important 'resource'. It's no different to helping each other out and work as a team with your colleagues in the future.

As Goro stated earlier - you're adult learners. there's freedom in how you approach the resources. It could be that you do board materials first (like pathoma or FA) then do lectures, or the opposite, lectures first than that stuff after. You could use textbooks and grill in the basics, then listen/watch lectures at top speed. Try a few methods, within reason, and see what works better. then abandon one and go for the other. Again, experiment.

TL;DR: everyone's a different colored crayon in the box. it can be too early to tell in the preclinical years which one you are. it's more evident later when you pick a specialty.
For now, efficiency is the goal (least amount of time spent to learn something and do well on questions as a preclinical year). Experiment to find out what works best for you in terms of study habits and resources. Everyone will give you different advice - but what worked for them, may not work for you. Still, try to maintain a healthy variety your diet of medical resources. it does the body good over the long term. There's no easy way outs, if there was, we wouldn't have long threads debating it.
Edit: edited for grammar (or tried to)

After "reading" that post, it is decided: You are buying the first few rounds of drinks, and it is my understanding Goro likes good strong ones.

Bar is open!!! Tab goes to the guy with the pointed ears
 
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the thing about textbooks in MS2 year is that they are high-yield, or at least robbins is. robbins basically covers the exact same stuff first aid does
 
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So your school is a disappointment, you're bored out of your mind, your faculty members don't know jack and overall they should be genuflecting when they come into your presence. Yet, instead of asking your professors questions about the basic medical sciences and Step 1 content, you post them on SDN for perfect strangers to "answer" and expect a high return on your "investment". For this you pay $50K/year. Yup. that about sums up our current culture.

Take a look at the Step 1 forum on SDN. Answer some of the questions that your colleagues are asking with regard to basic medical sciences. Look for the posts that reference the classic texts like Robbins & Cotran, Janeway, Ross & Pawlina, Purves, Katzung, etc. You don't see any do you? Just a bunch of horse manure about FA, eh? yeah, they're geniuses too.

For you precious little snowflakes wanting an MD Degree in 3 years or less, and a 260 Step 1 Score in 144 characters on Twitter, be forewarned: you are doomed once you enter the practice of medicine. The hospital admins who hold MBA MHA, MSHA Degrees, know precisely how unprepared physicians are in the medical business landscape. They have little regard for the needs of their employed physicians and you showing up fresh out of medical school clueless and lacking passion will reinforce the message in their minds: they own you. And you won't be able to do a darn thing about them because they've got your number. They know how little you know and they also know the debt you possess.

In the unlikely chance you decide to bust your ass studying the core material and minutiae that will make you smarter, greater and more talented than physicians like Dr. Siddhartha Mukherjee, Dr. Atul Gawande, Dr Paul Kalanithi, Dr Vincent DeVita, Dr. Abraham Verghese and other puff balls, you are aiding the executives of health care field and government bureaucrats

Third Party Payers and CMS are chasing physicians out of the profession with their unethical business practices. Yet medical students like you act like there is no reason for you to step up your game.

Luckily some of us know better and are itching to push back on those bastards for the sake of our patients, for the love of medicine and because we are the future of medicine. Hospital Corporation of America, EmCare, Blue Cross, Medicare/Medicaid, Veterans Administration and the rest should be taken down. It will require physicians with fire, heart and soul. If only we had more of them.

Serious question. Are you a med student, resident or attending?
 
The funny thing is, as an MS1 you're pretty ill-suited to identify "minutiae". There were quite a few questions I got right on step 1 because I learned all the "minutiae" during the preclinical years.
A lot of the things I thought would be low yield have been indispensable on the wards. Not everything is about exams- my school did a less than desirable job preparing us for exams but an excellent job preparing us for clinical practice.
 
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Update from OP:
Finally made the switch to using mostly board materials. Last block of exams was one of my poorest performances to date, but I still passed everything by a good margin. More importantly, I learned way more high-yield material from outside resources. In light of this, I've resolved to put in even less effort in my classes. I haven't even watched or read any of my school's lectures for the past week. As long as I continue to pass, I will keep learning on my own terms like this. I feel like I'm being more efficient with my time, plus it makes learning a lot more enjoyable for some reason.
 
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Update from OP:
Finally made the switch to using mostly board materials. Last block of exams was one of my poorest performances to date, but I still passed everything by a good margin. More importantly, I learned way more high-yield material from outside resources. In light of this, I've resolved to put in even less effort in my classes. I haven't even watched or read any of my school's lectures for the past week. As long as I continue to pass, I will keep learning on my own terms like this. I feel like I'm being more efficient with my time, plus it makes learning a lot more enjoyable for some reason.

Yo footsies,

how do you do questions and things to review the material? Any specific qbank you recommend?

Keep it up fam!
 
Everything is another part of the process.
You don't wake up a physician. You become one.
Whether it's taking college classes that seem irrelevant or learning minutiae in medical school, this is all your process.

It's been done this way for God knows how long now. Decent physicians continue to come out of it.
Buy in. Deal with the suck. And one day, in a galaxy far far away, you will be the master of what matters to you.
 
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Yo footsies,

how do you do questions and things to review the material? Any specific qbank you recommend?

Keep it up fam!

I haven't started doing question banks yet. For now I am focusing on premade Anki decks of Step 1 material (i.e. Brosencephalon). I'm planning on starting qbanks at the beginning of M2. I want to do UsmleRx, Kaplan, and Uworld in that order.
 
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Me looking at this thread

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