AMA - Practice startups and early retirement

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What's the thought on the financial benefit of HPSP military scholarship and staying in for 20 years to get the pension. Seems like it would be same amount of passive income afterwards with less stress.

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What kind of legacy, if any, do you want to leave behind? Or do you care at all? And by easier ways to make money, I'm assuming you mean angel investing?

At this point, I don't really care about leaving a legacy. Angel investing (I hate that term), real estate lending, invoice factoring, and other entrepreneurial pursuits.
 
What's the thought on the financial benefit of HPSP military scholarship and staying in for 20 years to get the pension. Seems like it would be same amount of passive income afterwards with less stress.

Do you have anymore details regarding HPSP scholarship + pension? What are the requirements for the scholarship? What do you get in return, and what commitments do you have for receiving the scholarship? Also, how much is the monthly pension?
 
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@TanMan .... didn't read the entire thread tldr, but I will say it's refreshing to see someone in dentistry achieving all your financial goals. Nice change of pace from all the doom and gloom threads.
 
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Do you have anymore details regarding HPSP scholarship + pension? What are the requirements for the scholarship? What do you get in return, and what commitments do you have for receiving the scholarship? Also, how much is the monthly pension?
HPSP is full-ride scholarship to dental school in exchange for same amount of years of military service (read: zero monetary debt). I believe the pension is half of your active duty pay grade for the rest of your life after you retire from the service (assuming 20 years service.) Info coming from an 06 that is about to retire after 30 years. Pension also includes other benefits like health insurance and access to commissary. I think its a relatively risk averse way to secure financial freedom (in stark contrast to your methods) but also an excellent way to serve your country. Different lifestyles for sure. From what I can gather, going the military route is less about the financial gain and more the other things that people find appealing about the military.
 
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Net32.com seems to get a lot of mentions for purchasing dental supplies. Is that your go-to supplier, too? Or do you feel another option is preferable?

Thanks, as always, for your insight.

---
For anyone else interested, here are two threads on sources for dental supplies:
1) Dental Supplies & Equipment and Where to Buy
2) Frustration w Dental Supply Companies!

I hope that helps.

Net32 is good for items that don't have too short of an expiration date or things that you don't need immediately. Net32 is cheaper since it is grey-market items (reimported) to florida usually. Quality is usually the same or slightly below what you get from domestic vendors. My personal experience is that shipping times can be a little long and expiration dates are short. I prefer Safco, their prices are usually below market average (and lots of coupons, rebates, offers + good free candy) with fast/free shipping. For rare items, Pearson seems to have everything, but their website is annoying. There are certain items that you have to go through patterson or schein, but those are far and few.

Net32 might be cheaper sometimes, but with a higher volume office where turnaround times/restocking + supply is done at least once a week, the unpredictability of ship dates can be a deal killer (or short expiration dates). Now you may ask, why not just stock a lot more. It's the cost of storage + room availability.
 
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Everyone's financial priorities are going to differ depending on your individual circumstances. @TanMan chose a path and successfully made it happen. This doesn't mean that his formula is going to work for everyone. Depends on what's important to you at whatever phase of life you're in. I spent my 30's and 40's working hard to raise a family. One daughter is just finishing up college and I have another going to college in a year. I am paying for their college and expenses. 529 plan since the kids were young. Cars for both daughters. Repairing said cars after some predictable fender benders. Spent plenty of money on vacations for the kids. Boats to go to the lake and spend quality time with the family. Keeping the Mrs. happy :). Dealt with my wife's unpredictable major health issue that cost lots of $$$. The point is .... if my circumstances were different and I put all that money into proper investments ... maybe I could retire at 40. As is ... I'm working in my mid 50's and enjoying it ..... so far.
 
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Everyone's financial priorities are going to differ depending on your individual circumstances. @TanMan chose a path and successfully made it happen. This doesn't mean that his formula is going to work for everyone. Depends on what's important to you at whatever phase of life you're in. I spent my 30's and 40's working hard to raise a family. One daughter is just finishing up college and I have another going to college in a year. I am paying for their college and expenses. 529 plan since the kids were young. Cars for both daughters. Repairing said cars after some predictable fender benders. Spent plenty of money on vacations for the kids. Boats to go to the lake and spend quality time with the family. Keeping the Mrs. happy :). Dealt with my wife's unpredictable major health issue that cost lots of $$$. The point is .... if my circumstances were different and I put all that money into proper investments ... maybe I could retire at 40. As is ... I'm working in my mid 50's and enjoying it ..... so far.

That's true... everyone's priorities are different.

I just got back from vacation, and I think a few of you have asked what I plan to do for retirement... My vacation actually gave me insight as to what retirement should be. I want my retirement to be like a permanent vacation from work. Nothing to worry about, no work to go back to, enjoying life everyday till I die. Retiring to a mediocre life that's not to the level of a nice vacation is extremely depressing to think about. When I imagine someone who's worked for 30+ years, living off a small monthly stipend or getting placed in a nursing home, that seems like a scary and depressing existence.

However, the daunting task/realization to have a lifetime source of income that will support a nice and luxurious "lifetime vacation" (aka retirement). There's no point in retiring if I'm going to have a mediocre retirement where I still have to worry about my expenses (due to low fixed income).

On a side note, I hate vacations because it had to end. I hope this gives you guys some insight as to what I mean by retirement. We have to look at the quality of life at retirement; not just the act of retirement. I could retire right now, but the quality of life wouldn't be that great v. if I had a lot more sources of income and wealth.
 
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Long time lurker and practicing GP here.

Great thread and discussion. Have several questions for you, TanMan. Forgive me if some of these have been previously covered...its been a couple weeks since I read the thread.

1) About the construction process, how did you go about choosing contractors, assuming this was a new build out? Did you run into any zoning issues?

2) What duties are your assistants performing? Making temps, taking impressions, etc....expanded functions?? Do you practice assisted hygiene? I read one of Scott Leune's initial threads on Dentaltown and he was a big proponent of this 'idea'.

3) what CE have you taken thus far?

4) Are you doing RCT/BU/crown in one appointment? Thought I saw this earlier in the thread.

5) How did you perform demographic analysis before you opened doors? I know you mentioned determining what type of dentist/office you would like to be first and that you received some data from the television/media stations used for marketing. What led you to choose your specific area in Texas? What other resources did you use to gather data to make your decision?

6) So you mentioned you like to keep it simple and tend to stray away from certain procedures. What happens with patients that need dentures, have bombed out dentition, candidates for full-mouth rehab or difficult implant cases? Are there certain docs you refer these patients to?

That's all I have for now. I'm sure I'll have additional questions later. Thanks in advance!
 
Long time lurker and practicing GP here.

Great thread and discussion. Have several questions for you, TanMan. Forgive me if some of these have been previously covered...its been a couple weeks since I read the thread.

1) About the construction process, how did you go about choosing contractors, assuming this was a new build out? Did you run into any zoning issues?

2) What duties are your assistants performing? Making temps, taking impressions, etc....expanded functions?? Do you practice assisted hygiene? I read one of Scott Leune's initial threads on Dentaltown and he was a big proponent of this 'idea'.

3) what CE have you taken thus far?

4) Are you doing RCT/BU/crown in one appointment? Thought I saw this earlier in the thread.

5) How did you perform demographic analysis before you opened doors? I know you mentioned determining what type of dentist/office you would like to be first and that you received some data from the television/media stations used for marketing. What led you to choose your specific area in Texas? What other resources did you use to gather data to make your decision?

6) So you mentioned you like to keep it simple and tend to stray away from certain procedures. What happens with patients that need dentures, have bombed out dentition, candidates for full-mouth rehab or difficult implant cases? Are there certain docs you refer these patients to?

That's all I have for now. I'm sure I'll have additional questions later. Thanks in advance!

1. Contractors... Choose a general contractor with a positive reputation. There are three general qualities, price, quality, and/or speed. When I first started, my first priorities were price/speed, but making it NOT look like a dental office. Landlords who care about the leasehold improvements usually know who's going to do good work on their property. In my case, my landlord was also a developer, so mine was developed nearly at cost. No zoning problems. As I mentioned before, it's better to have someone local who is well known within the building inspectors so you can get things approved quickly.

2. Texas is limited on what assistants can do. Anything and everything that can be delegated legally to assistants are delegated. My time is worth more than theirs. Assisted hygiene definitely makes sense, but it depends on how your workflow goes. Keeping rounded numbers (hypothetical), if you charge 100USD for a prophy and your hygienist can do 2 unassisted, and 3 assisted, you just increased your prophy production by 50% for the price of an assistant's hour (which is worth less than a prophy). However, I tend to balance the hygiene assistants in getting patients in and out, taking radiographs, walking patients out. Pretty much priority is all the auxiliary functions, secondary function is assist the hygienist.

3. The ones I can remember are Level 1/2 oral sedation, LANAP, pinhole, just did an implant course since I'm trying to develop an streamlined implant procedural system that can be implemented in my office (still in the works). The rest of the CE's I did were just to meet licensure requirements. I find it hard to do CE's that don't take away my weekends unless my return of investment is worth taking time off. I'm not going to be one of those dentists that brag about going to so and so institute, etc... I think earlier in my posts, I mentioned not doing implants, but now that I've cut out underperforming procedures, I'll start on implants and see how that goes.

4. Single appointment RCT/BU/Crown. Possible with the CEREC. How to justify to patients? You only have to go through this once unlike other places where you might have to go through it 2-3+ appts. Most ppl opt to one longer appt.

5. I worked in the area for a little bit and found that there's a deficiency in PPO/FFS offices since everyone and their mom was opening a medicaid mill. I prefer to look at it from a supply/demand side, but dentistry is not dentistry. There's medicaid dentistry, FFS/PPO dentistry, HMO dentistry; different models revolve around different demographics. One thing I learned is that in a medicaid heavy population, a large support staff population exists in the form of healthcare and teachers. Some of the research included what kind of PPO's the population had (were they any good - do they pay, and how much?), how hard is it to get an appointment in the area (if it takes too long, people want it NOW), is there an unmet market need in the region (convenient hours), etc... I'll try and go into more detail, my mind is usually fragmented and you'll probably get fragmented answers from me. I prefer specific questions, since I tend to just ramble on what comes to mind - that may not necessarily be a complete and thorough answer. Somewhere on these posts, I may have discussed what to look for in demographics.

6. If they need dentures, full mouth rehab, difficult patients, bombed out dentition. I refer them out. I don't even touch them, as it's not fair to the referred dentist (they should get the good and the bad), and I don't want to get involved. Only time I may get involved is if they are in pain. I'll take care of what gets them out of pain and refer them out. Production/hour drops significantly in these cases. Implants, I'm looking to implementing a nearly idiot-proof system to these, so I'll be placing implants pretty soon. I'm not planning to do all on 4/5/6's; If it requires more extensive procedures, I'll refer to an oral surgeon. You may have noticed I took sedation courses, but I don't do sedation as it does not work with the office workflow and attracts the wrong kind of patients.

I screen my specialists. They need to do high quality work and be nice to the patients. If the quality is bad, I stop referring. If my patients complain about how rude or unprofessional a specialist is/was, then I stop referring. I usually monitor patient feedback to the specialists. If it's a single problematic patient that I know loves to complain, then I don't really take note of it, but if its multiple problematic accounts, then I stop referring.
 
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re: contractors:

1. reputable dental contractor/architect
2. contractor holds insurance bond for entire work in case he goes under. You need a copy of this bond and the amount.
3. get to know the sub-contractors. Make sure they are being paid by the general. Have them contact you immediately if the general falls behind in paying them.
4. Usually the full lein releases are given to you at the END of the project. This is bad. Request partial lein releases on EVERY payment made to the general. Your payments will be itemized and paid out to the subs. Ask for partial lein releases either from the general or the subs. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. TRUST ME. No partial lein releases .... then no more payments. Generals often have a number of projects going and they will shuffle YOUR money between the projects.

Realize that the general is just the middle player. You have sub-contractors that actually perform the work and YOU. If the general files bankrupcy or doesn't pay the subs, or skips town....the subs will go after YOU. If you do not pay them .... they hold the leins on a portion of the property.
 
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What's your thoughts on FFS? What does it take to have a successful FFS practice? Does this mean being a super GP and being really good clinically?
 
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What's your thoughts on FFS? What does it take to have a successful FFS practice? Does this mean being a super GP and being really good clinically?

FFS can be viable, although a bit slower model of growth. It's definitely viable, but I see different types of FFS patients. Requisite is that they need a good amount of disposable income as they tend to have higher out of pocket expenses than their PPO counterparts. You can be an out-of-network provider who can assist the patient in filing insurance paperwork but bill at your office fee schedule.

Think about why someone would want to pay more. There has to be a reason that patients are willing to pay more out of pocket, whether it is because they don't have insurance or willing to go out of network. For those that don't have insurance, you can go the low end of FFS (which I don't hear very often) or the high end of FFS (which can be more common). Low end FFS makes no sense, since you might as well accept the fee schedules while remaining in-network. High end FFS requires incentives for those that don't have insurance or offer something to those with PPO insurance willing to go out of network.

Now, as I mentioned before, you have price, quality, and convenience as primary motivating factors. Price, I don't think is a viable business model. Quality is perceived - you can compete on perceived quality by services offered and technology. This is where the superGP model comes in. However, the question would be whether people are willing to pay for quality in your region. Quality is also perceived in time spent with the patient. If you take too long, you may appear incompetent or thorough (unprofitable in both respects), if you are too fast, you may seem like you're not spending enough time with the patient. Long story short, there's many factors in perceived quality, and a quick jumpstart to increasing perceived quality is buying/soliciting bulk google/yelp reviews and along with a showcase of your technological investments. Not exactly ethical, but it's essentially pay to win unfortunately. The one danger of basing your practice off reviews is that you tend to attract patients who tend to be pickier, ask more questions, and think they know more from googling "dentistry".

Another model is through convenience - I'm not sure if people would pay more for convenience, but convenience can be perceived in a few ways. First is hours and availability. Are you available when other dentists are not available? Second has to do with a superGP or GP with specialists onboard. Does the patient have to go anywhere else, or can they get everything done in one office. Ties back into looking like you have the best office.

Having a successful FFS practice ties into location, whether your demographics are not too price sensitive, and whether you can cater to their perceptions of quality and convenience. You don't necessarily have to be a super GP, you could be a GP with specialists in your office. You also don't have to be good clinically. The most successful dentists are not the best dentists. As long as your work looks acceptable, doesn't fall apart, and doesn't hurt, that's good enough for most people. Our criterias for good treatment are not necessarily the patient's criterias of perceived "good treatment"
 
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Thank you for doing this TanMan. Amazing!
 
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Hi TanMan,

Is the primary difference between not wanting to mentor an associate vs being fairly free with your advice on here time?

Can you delve a little bit more into your incentive structure for employees. Do you keep track of production and give them dollar amounts? Do they know what percentage they have the ability to achieve based on total office production numbers. Do they know the total office production numbers? Is there a differential; Hygienist can achieve a higher percentage than front office or DA?

You clearly have a good staff but I wonder if someone were trying to replicate and gave too much info if they would start to resent just how much the doc was taking home

Thank you very much for this thread and your willingness to answer silly questions as well as more practical ones. I think its great you entertained some philosophical questions and were honest even when they were semi-attacking of your perspective. I also have not found anything this detailed, comprehensive, and straightforward consolidated into one place (have to sift through dentaltown to get this much detail usually)
 
Hi TanMan,

Is the primary difference between not wanting to mentor an associate vs being fairly free with your advice on here time?

Can you delve a little bit more into your incentive structure for employees. Do you keep track of production and give them dollar amounts? Do they know what percentage they have the ability to achieve based on total office production numbers. Do they know the total office production numbers? Is there a differential; Hygienist can achieve a higher percentage than front office or DA?

You clearly have a good staff but I wonder if someone were trying to replicate and gave too much info if they would start to resent just how much the doc was taking home

Thank you very much for this thread and your willingness to answer silly questions as well as more practical ones. I think its great you entertained some philosophical questions and were honest even when they were semi-attacking of your perspective. I also have not found anything this detailed, comprehensive, and straightforward consolidated into one place (have to sift through dentaltown to get this much detail usually)

If the associate is willing to work for cheap until they are willing to buy my office, I may consider mentoring. I'm pretty free about advice because I don't see any consequence in doing so. I don't think what I do is necessarily a trade secret, it's just common sense.

If they meet my threshold for the month, they get 2-2.5% divided among all the dental assistants. If one of the teams gets a major write up, I'll slash their bonus and team (i.e hygiene, ops, front, or billing team) by 1/3. If they don't meet the threshold, no one gets a bonus. Hygienists are on a totally different pay structure. Guaranteed hourly with a percentage on certain procedures. This motivates them to present and sell procedures.

My staff knows how much the office makes, they also know that they can't get a better deal in most other places. Most of my employees have gone from having nothing to having new cars, home ownership, getting an education, going to company vacations that normally would not be available to DA's, etc... They see me drive my cars, have hosted parties at my house, taken them out to open bar restaurants (although most of the restaurants actually stop serving us alcohol after they think we had too much)... so they know how much I have and take home. I'm also not greedy when it comes to money. If they need money for an emergency or other things, I'll let them borrow money. If they need a ride or help with anything, we all help each other (myself included). It's like a family. There are some things that I have not disclosed to them. I don't think I'll be having children, and even if I do, I may just leave my fortune to everyone who made it possible (my staff).

If you show that you care for your staff, they will take care of you. Small gestures such as company vacations (things they wouldn't be able to experience on their own) or student loan repayment goes a long way to developing loyalty.
 
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I'm in a different field than Dentistry but it is always awesome to read about other people doing awesome things clinically different than all the others. Thanks for great read.

Side note. Anyone interested in another similar great read there is a thread pinned under the Plastic Surgery Thread about a guy who started his very own clinic right out of residency.
 
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TanMan

Any new updates or changes going on? Any new investing going on?

This was one of my favorite threads to read through so just checking in.
 
TanMan

Any new updates or changes going on? Any new investing going on?

This was one of my favorite threads to read through so just checking in.

So far, not much has changed on the dental side. Stable dental office production levels. Businesses are finally maturing, able to draw a good amount of passive income now. Still on track for 50k+/month in passive income by next year. Tasks for this year is to payoff my primary residence, move company HQ to Dallas, and reevaluate everything next year.
 
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So far, not much has changed on the dental side. Stable dental office production levels. Businesses are finally maturing, able to draw a good amount of passive income now. Still on track for 50k+/month in passive income by next year. Tasks for this year is to payoff my primary residence, move company HQ to Dallas, and reevaluate everything next year.
still no plans for a family and kids?
 
still no plans for a family and kids?

No kids yet, I have too much to do still. Socially, I think we are told that children bring fulfillment into parent's lives. However, I think that seems to be the exception more than the rule. A lot of my colleagues and friends that I talk to admit that they regret having kids, and I can see that they are a prisoner within their own lives, with crushed aspirations due to the obligations that are weighing them down.

Maybe get married in a year or two.
 
No kids yet, I have too much to do still. Socially, I think we are told that children bring fulfillment into parent's lives. However, I think that seems to be the exception more than the rule. A lot of my colleagues and friends that I talk to admit that they regret having kids, and I can see that they are a prisoner within their own lives, with crushed aspirations due to the obligations that are weighing them down.

Maybe get married in a year or two.

Bring fulfillment with the right mentality. The fact that you have "a lot" of colleagues and friends that say they regret it shows they don't have (and probably never had) the mentality that is not about you anymore.
 
I also desire not to derail thy thread. So that's the only comment I'll make on the subject.
 
No kids yet, I have too much to do still. Socially, I think we are told that children bring fulfillment into parent's lives. However, I think that seems to be the exception more than the rule. A lot of my colleagues and friends that I talk to admit that they regret having kids, and I can see that they are a prisoner within their own lives, with crushed aspirations due to the obligations that are weighing them down.

Maybe get married in a year or two.

Ouch. I agree that having children is a HUGE responsibility .... both in time and financial. There are a few times during stressful child-parent interactions that I envy my friends who chose not to have children. Without children .... I would have been a very wealthy man. I would be driving a new Ferrari every three years, boats, beach condos, exotic vacations, etc. etc. That list could go on and on.

But ... I have NO REGRETS for having two wonderful daughters in my life. They ARE MY LIFE. As you get older ... you realize that your true task in life is to invest in your children's lives and pass on your memory and legacy through your children. My wife and I cannot wait for grandchildren.

I actually feel sorry for those couples without children. I'm friends with a couple who did not want children. They talk all the time about their vacations, new home, cars, going out, etc. etc. etc. It's the SAME theme every time I talk to them. Seems so shallow and self serving.

Well ... my oldest daughter is getting married. My wife and I are happy that we will get our grandkids soon.

People choose to live their lives as they want. No right or wrong choices.
 
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Bring fulfillment with the right mentality. The fact that you have "a lot" of colleagues and friends that say they regret it shows they don't have (and probably never had) the mentality that is not about you anymore.

I think you hit it right on the nail. Reflecting at those that regret v. those that have no regrets, age and maturity definitely play a role. Those that have the same/similar response as @2TH MVR are people who are more stable, had children when they were older, and retrospectively would not give up their current life with children. Whereas the ones that have regrets tend to be younger or had an abrupt change in their current lifestyle. You may be right that their life revolved around themselves and are now having to adapt to having another human depend on them. Two most recent examples are my dental assistants. Two of them were going to get abortions, one of my hygienists with strong religious convictions convinced them otherwise, and now express regret on going through with their decision. Only time will tell whether their regrets will turn into joy and/or acceptance.

Learning and observing other people's lives, I think the lesson would be to have children when you're ready. Otherwise, children put a strain on your relationships and lifestyle. Especially special needs children. I've seen a lot of divorces that result from having a special needs child.

Ouch. I agree that having children is a HUGE responsibility .... both in time and financial. There are a few times during stressful child-parent interactions that I envy my friends who chose not to have children. Without children .... I would have been a very wealthy man. I would be driving a new Ferrari every three years, boats, beach condos, exotic vacations, etc. etc. That list could go on and on.

But ... I have NO REGRETS for having two wonderful daughters in my life. They ARE MY LIFE. As you get older ... you realize that your true task in life is to invest in your children's lives and pass on your memory and legacy through your children. My wife and I cannot wait for grandchildren.

I actually feel sorry for those couples without children. I'm friends with a couple who did not want children. They talk all the time about their vacations, new home, cars, going out, etc. etc. etc. It's the SAME theme every time I talk to them. Seems so shallow and self serving.

Well ... my oldest daughter is getting married. My wife and I are happy that we will get our grandkids soon.

People choose to live their lives as they want. No right or wrong choices.

When you look at it that way, I guess it is superficial. As I said before, when I'm bored with what a child-free life has to offer, maybe I'll have kids.
 
Ouch. I agree that having children is a HUGE responsibility .... both in time and financial. There are a few times during stressful child-parent interactions that I envy my friends who chose not to have children. Without children .... I would have been a very wealthy man. I would be driving a new Ferrari every three years, boats, beach condos, exotic vacations, etc. etc. That list could go on and on.

But ... I have NO REGRETS for having two wonderful daughters in my life. They ARE MY LIFE. As you get older ... you realize that your true task in life is to invest in your children's lives and pass on your memory and legacy through your children. My wife and I cannot wait for grandchildren.

I actually feel sorry for those couples without children. I'm friends with a couple who did not want children. They talk all the time about their vacations, new home, cars, going out, etc. etc. etc. It's the SAME theme every time I talk to them. Seems so shallow and self serving.

Well ... my oldest daughter is getting married. My wife and I are happy that we will get our grandkids soon.

People choose to live their lives as they want. No right or wrong choices.

Recently, I had a chat with an old friend regarding marriage. He told me, don't get married, your sex life will go down the tubes. Said the same thing about having kids. Is there any truth to this? I realize that asking this in my own AMA thread is not really in the spirit of asking me anything, but I figure it's an important question to me and a subset of readers of this AMA.
 
Recently, I had a chat with an old friend regarding marriage. He told me, don't get married, your sex life will go down the tubes. Said the same thing about having kids. Is there any truth to this? I realize that asking this in my own AMA thread is not really in the spirit of asking me anything, but I figure it's an important question to me and a subset of readers of this AMA.


Haha. I cannot comment on the sex life. That might be outside the scope of SDN. 1st off .... I don't want to come off as self righteous. People's lives and how they choose to live their lives is their choice. I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to possessions. I like nice things. I like to go on nice vacations. Yes .... being married and having kids is a major financial burden. No controversy there. My oldest daughter is getting married and my youngest daughter is starting college. $$$$$$$$$. But I wouldn't have it any other way.

I guess when you're on your death bed .... you'll know if you made the right decision and no regrets.
 
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How are you preparing for the looming financial crisis?
How do you avoid burn-out with your excessive schedule?
How do you attract a large number of patients?

1. Cash/cash equivalents, guns and lots of ammo. Hopefully when it comes crashing down and a credit crunch occurs , I should be able to strike at any opportunity that comes my way. Maybe coupled with a few natural disasters, I can snap up assets for relatively cheap. Looking to diversify in international markets such as the Philippines, Turkey, and Brazil.
2. A night's fun and/or sleep is enough to wipe the slate clean for the next day.
3. Lots of consistent advertising.
 
1. Cash/cash equivalents, guns and lots of ammo. Hopefully when it comes crashing down and a credit crunch occurs , I should be able to strike at any opportunity that comes my way. Maybe coupled with a few natural disasters, I can snap up assets for relatively cheap. Looking to diversify in international markets such as the Philippines, Turkey, and Brazil.


images.jpg
 
Recently, I had a chat with an old friend regarding marriage. He told me, don't get married, your sex life will go down the tubes. Said the same thing about having kids. Is there any truth to this? I realize that asking this in my own AMA thread is not really in the spirit of asking me anything, but I figure it's an important question to me and a subset of readers of this AMA.


This is correct, all my friends who got married, sex lives have gone down the tubes. It’s true, and everyone knows it. Why do you think there are so many affairs and mistresses, which ends with a lot of men splitting half their assets? (Amazon rings a bell) As men, we are driven by sex and that’s just biology, women are not the same, so when they get married and comfortable, guess what?? All my married friends say the same thing. Majority of men in power stay married, and then hire you know what in secret, it’s the truth, so let’s not sugar coat it just because it’s sdn..
 
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I have done side businesses for years, and yes it is possible. Tan Man has taken it to a whole other level, which on the surface appears extreme, but may be the future if it works. Investing is tricky, and a side hustle is just that, not encompassing your full attention. But there is no substitute for passive income. With no kids and no wife, you have it pretty easy. Raising three kids takes away some of that 45%.
 
When I was 25 I asked a girl to be my girlfriend (on my birthday so she couldnt say no lol).. 7 months later we found out she was pregnant. I was working a couple part time jobs, in Army Reserve, had an associates degree, spent most of time lifting weights, drinking and working dead end jobs and had been back from Iraq for about 1 year. That was 2011-2012. I got enrolled in college in Cell/Molecular Bio, my daughter was born in December 2012 and my girlfriend started school with me the next semester (like 2 weeks after my daughter was born).. We finished school, got married. I made it into dental school, had another daughter in 2017 and have a son coming April 2019. Our sex life is great and having kids and a wife has categorically made my life better and made me a better person. I honestly believe people get divorced, cheat etc generally due to selfish reasons, immediate gratification and because its easy. Not denying the biological drives at all, but there are a lot of biological drives that we dont act on. If you cheat on your wife, hate your kids, have a weak sex life etc, its not them, its you. You are deficient in some area of your life, manhood, personality, life-fulfillment etc.
 
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This is correct, all my friends who got married, sex lives have gone down the tubes. It’s true, and everyone knows it. Why do you think there are so many affairs and mistresses, which ends with a lot of men splitting half their assets? (Amazon rings a bell) As men, we are driven by sex and that’s just biology, women are not the same, so when they get married and comfortable, guess what?? All my married friends say the same thing. Majority of men in power stay married, and then hire you know what in secret, it’s the truth, so let’s not sugar coat it just because it’s sdn..

That's good to know that it's not just my circle of married friends saying the same thing.

When I was 25 I asked a girl to be my girlfriend (on my birthday so she couldnt say no lol).. 7 months later we found out she was pregnant. I was working a couple part time jobs, in Army Reserve, had an associates degree, spent most of time lifting weights, drinking and working dead end jobs and had been back from Iraq for about 1 year. That was 2011-2012. I got enrolled in college in Cell/Molecular Bio, my daughter was born in December 2012 and my girlfriend started school with me the next semester (like 2 weeks after my daughter was born).. We finished school, got married. I made it into dental school, had another daughter in 2017 and have a son coming April 2019. Our sex life is great and having kids and a wife has categorically made my life better and made me a better person. I honestly believe people get divorced, cheat etc generally due to selfish reasons, immediate gratification and because its easy. Not denying the biological drives at all, but there are a lot of biological drives that we dont act on. If you cheat on your wife, hate your kids, have a weak sex life etc, its not them, its you. You are deficient in some area of your life, manhood, personality, life-fulfillment etc.

I'm not going to judge you based on the story that you just told, but I'm glad that you are content with your life. It's rare to see someone who is truly happy and content in their life, w/o regrets.
 
Recently, I had a chat with an old friend regarding marriage. He told me, don't get married, your sex life will go down the tubes. Said the same thing about having kids. Is there any truth to this? I realize that asking this in my own AMA thread is not really in the spirit of asking me anything, but I figure it's an important question to me and a subset of readers of this AMA.

There's more to life then having sex life. Raising a family and having kids is something you can't put a price to. Being a grandpa and seeing another generation of your kids grow up is something that money can't buy. I firmly believe that at end the your days, you won't be thinking about your class 2's, and the 5 practices you built, and the 10 million dollars you accumulated, but rather about your kids and their kids.

The average couple who is married has sex 2-3 times a month? It's normal, it's healthy. But you have to keep up with yourself to. If you just get married and stop caring about personal hygiene, going to the gym, working out, eating right, and just stop caring about yourself, then yeah it's understandable why the drive would go down. It takes two to tango.

And for my friends who are still single men sleeping around and tindering all day, they tell me that it's empty. Sleeping with the 10th girl in the month, sex becomes routine boring, and theres no emotional connection, and they would rather trade it for a good girl who cares about them and vice versa. But alas once you get into that tindering world, its like a slog of crap that goes around and around in a circle. Girls sleeping with dudes, dudes with girls, you find someone you like and they end up going on 5 different dates with other dudes in the same week...just a bunch of nonsense. Plus they tell me those instagram babes are totally conceited, into themselves, and not exactly marriage material....

so....with all that being said, I'm glad to be with my wife that I have been with for 11 years.

I have no idea why this post is on this forum. But theres my thoughts on it.
 
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Okay. Now back to business talk everyone.
 
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Okay. Now back to business talk everyone.

Secret to early retirement in my eyes is:

1) Buy a big practice that can service your debts well. I am against start-ups because
1A) it takes time to start having a positive cash flow 2-3 years
1B) if it never cash flows and barely breaks even, you are accumulating 300-500k of 7% interest debt because you cannot throw money at your loans since you are barely above water
1C) you wasted your prime years on a failed practice

2) Buying a big practice that cash flows well basically gives you enough to pay off the practice loan/student loan in a timely manner. 5-10 years is doable. Once the practice is paid off- the equity can be sold back onto the market which adds to retirement.

3) It's very hard to fail at a big practice. As long as you treat patients well, they will come back and see you. It's not hard.

4) Cut overhead to a minimal. My owner was running around 65% overhead. I cut all the auto-subscriptions, recurring revenues, I order all my supplies in bulk, and office supplies I use coupons all day long. I negotiated my lab costs etc and I am running at 55% overhead on 1 mil + collections.

5) Max out your 401k every year, save every penny you get, and pay down your debts. Right now my practice loan is 4%. I throw money into it because its a guaranteed return of 4%. The stock market is at a 10 year bull run. I don't know how much juice is left in it. I would rather go with the guaranteed 4% return.

6) Plan to possibly exit dentistry earlier then expected. Just like in the stock market- you should never get "married to a position." If dentistry heads the same way as GE stock, then you should plan to possibly sell your equity before it becomes worthless. Always try to be financially free as soon as possible so you can manuever and change it up. If becoming an associate or working for the gov makes more financial sense then do it. But if you aren't frugal, and didn't plan financially, then you are stuck with a failing GE stock and good luck with that. The days of being the "dentist on the block" for 35 years...is over in my opinion...
 
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Im just an incoming dental student for the class of 2023 but am trying to learn the business side of dentistry so that I can be successful in practice. Looking at practices for sale I've noticed that many of them are open 3-4 days a week and offer hygiene during these days. Is there any benefit to doing all of the hygiene yourself and being open 2 extra days per week to see all of the patients yourself? I am curious if this will reduce the overhead that much. I am assuming that it doesn't or more places would do this but I'm still curious to hear your thoughts.
 
Im just an incoming dental student for the class of 2023 but am trying to learn the business side of dentistry so that I can be successful in practice. Looking at practices for sale I've noticed that many of them are open 3-4 days a week and offer hygiene during these days. Is there any benefit to doing all of the hygiene yourself and being open 2 extra days per week to see all of the patients yourself? I am curious if this will reduce the overhead that much. I am assuming that it doesn't or more places would do this but I'm still curious to hear your thoughts.
Your time is better spent doing procedures other than hygeine. The reason you even hire it out to hygenists is because your hands/skills/training is worth more elsewhere.

Plus, it's hygeine. Woof.
 
There's more to life then having sex life. Raising a family and having kids is something you can't put a price to. Being a grandpa and seeing another generation of your kids grow up is something that money can't buy. I firmly believe that at end the your days, you won't be thinking about your class 2's, and the 5 practices you built, and the 10 million dollars you accumulated, but rather about your kids and their kids.

The average couple who is married has sex 2-3 times a month? It's normal, it's healthy. But you have to keep up with yourself to. If you just get married and stop caring about personal hygiene, going to the gym, working out, eating right, and just stop caring about yourself, then yeah it's understandable why the drive would go down. It takes two to tango.

And for my friends who are still single men sleeping around and tindering all day, they tell me that it's empty. Sleeping with the 10th girl in the month, sex becomes routine boring, and theres no emotional connection, and they would rather trade it for a good girl who cares about them and vice versa. But alas once you get into that tindering world, its like a slog of crap that goes around and around in a circle. Girls sleeping with dudes, dudes with girls, you find someone you like and they end up going on 5 different dates with other dudes in the same week...just a bunch of nonsense. Plus they tell me those instagram babes are totally conceited, into themselves, and not exactly marriage material....

so....with all that being said, I'm glad to be with my wife that I have been with for 11 years.

I have no idea why this post is on this forum. But theres my thoughts on it.

2-3 times a month?! That's horrible. This post is on the forum because divorce/unhappy relationships are a real problem for dentists. A lot of dentists lose their shirts because of messy divorces and problematic relationships. It's good to know that there's dentists here who are content with their relationships/marriage.

Secret to early retirement in my eyes is:

1) Buy a big practice that can service your debts well. I am against start-ups because
1A) it takes time to start having a positive cash flow 2-3 years
1B) if it never cash flows and barely breaks even, you are accumulating 300-500k of 7% interest debt because you cannot throw money at your loans since you are barely above water
1C) you wasted your prime years on a failed practice

2) Buying a big practice that cash flows well basically gives you enough to pay off the practice loan/student loan in a timely manner. 5-10 years is doable. Once the practice is paid off- the equity can be sold back onto the market which adds to retirement.

3) It's very hard to fail at a big practice. As long as you treat patients well, they will come back and see you. It's not hard.

4) Cut overhead to a minimal. My owner was running around 65% overhead. I cut all the auto-subscriptions, recurring revenues, I order all my supplies in bulk, and office supplies I use coupons all day long. I negotiated my lab costs etc and I am running at 55% overhead on 1 mil + collections.

5) Max out your 401k every year, save every penny you get, and pay down your debts. Right now my practice loan is 4%. I throw money into it because its a guaranteed return of 4%. The stock market is at a 10 year bull run. I don't know how much juice is left in it. I would rather go with the guaranteed 4% return.

6) Plan to possibly exit dentistry earlier then expected. Just like in the stock market- you should never get "married to a position." If dentistry heads the same way as GE stock, then you should plan to possibly sell your equity before it becomes worthless. Always try to be financially free as soon as possible so you can manuever and change it up. If becoming an associate or working for the gov makes more financial sense then do it. But if you aren't frugal, and didn't plan financially, then you are stuck with a failing GE stock and good luck with that. The days of being the "dentist on the block" for 35 years...is over in my opinion...

Point 1B is the wrong way of doing a startup. You don't need to burn 300-500k on a new practice. You don't even have to take out loans for a new practice if you keep it simple and cheap.

Point 2 is true, but it's just a slow way of making money.

Point 3 is not about just the size, but the stability of the practice/cash flows, and hope that you don't get stuck with a bunch of redos.

Point 4/6 make sense; 5 is relative. If you have no investments that can produce 4% post-tax income, repay your 4% practice loan

I'm all for startups just because the potential is a lot greater than buying into a practice. It might be riskier, but the reward is still greater. I relate buying a practice like buying into a bond/investment vehicle that you have to put labor into. It's predictable, but the return on equity(practice + patients) is priced into the price... whereas a startup has the equipment + advertising costs.

Im just an incoming dental student for the class of 2023 but am trying to learn the business side of dentistry so that I can be successful in practice. Looking at practices for sale I've noticed that many of them are open 3-4 days a week and offer hygiene during these days. Is there any benefit to doing all of the hygiene yourself and being open 2 extra days per week to see all of the patients yourself? I am curious if this will reduce the overhead that much. I am assuming that it doesn't or more places would do this but I'm still curious to hear your thoughts.

If you do hygiene yourself, you are robbing yourself of the time to do profitable ops. Delegate hygiene to lower cost hygienists to free yourself to do more profitable ops. When you are first starting, you should do hygiene yourself until you have enough patients to make money off a hygienist and fill your ops schedule.
 
The problem with buying a huge, expensive practice is that technically .... you cannot move it. You're fully vested into THAT location. All good if that location has been stable or good through out the years. Like I stated in other posts ...when I was younger (and had sex more than 2-3 times a month :D) I started some scratch ortho practices in new, thriving parts of the city. I just went where the GPs went. My last practice (I still own the building there) ... there was only ONE GP in that area. He paid BIG for that practice. Around $900,000. He didn't even own the real estate. But it was a busy practice since he was the only GP in the area. Well ..... next 5 yrs. 5 more GPs opened in that same area along with 2 large Corps. He struggled for years and finally filed bankrupcy. He then got a job working Corp. His mistake was overpaying for that practice and not realizing that because that area was good initially .... meant others were sure to come there.

If I was a new GP .... I would be looking for a small to medium practice with good cash flow. Not easy to find. Mostly retiring GPs who have let there practice die. Location is EVERYTHING. Personally I would start a small practice from scratch and work Corp on the side. If you do this ... hire EXPERIENCED staff to help you.
 
The problem with buying a huge, expensive practice is that technically .... you cannot move it. You're fully vested into THAT location. All good if that location has been stable or good through out the years. Like I stated in other posts ...when I was younger (and had sex more than 2-3 times a month :D) I started some scratch ortho practices in new, thriving parts of the city. I just went where the GPs went. My last practice (I still own the building there) ... there was only ONE GP in that area. He paid BIG for that practice. Around $900,000. He didn't even own the real estate. But it was a busy practice since he was the only GP in the area. Well ..... next 5 yrs. 5 more GPs opened in that same area along with 2 large Corps. He struggled for years and finally filed bankrupcy. He then got a job working Corp. His mistake was overpaying for that practice and not realizing that because that area was good initially .... meant others were sure to come there.

If I was a new GP .... I would be looking for a small to medium practice with good cash flow. Not easy to find. Mostly retiring GPs who have let there practice die. Location is EVERYTHING. Personally I would start a small practice from scratch and work Corp on the side. If you do this ... hire EXPERIENCED staff to help you.

Buying a big practice or starting a practice can be looked like buying a stock.

You can buy Visa, Mastercard, BRK A/B...and you know what you are getting. You are getting solid financials, proven track records, and most likely you will be overpaying for it in this bull market. You buy a practice thats akin to that. Well you know what you are getting. A good patient base, a good story, and goodwill.

Most likely those stocks will continue to do well, and most likely you as a practice owner will to. You won't double your return as those stocks are already valued sky high...and as a business owner you probably aren't going to double the collections and make a killing. You will a solid return on your investment and depending on what kind of practice cash flow you buy...you will be very comfortable. Personally, I increased my collections .04% which it might not seem alot but when you are already in the million range, that's hard to achieve.

Can those stocks end up like KHC, or GE. Yes, it very well can end up that way. Just like buying a stale practice can end up the same way. Just how like your GP who paid 900k ended up like.

Looking at a startup, they have great potentials. If you end up buying something in the market like SQ which literally quadruapled in 2 years, you will be in better shape then investing in BRK A/B. Just like practice ownership. It's much easier to increase collections .04% to 100%. But if your practice ends up like a dud like Blue Apron, Snap, Gopro, then you are seriously screwed.

The bottom line is you do your homework and you do your due diligence. At the end of the day, you have to stomach the risks and you have to know where your risk profile is. If you don't do your investment homework regardless of startup or buying an existing practice, you are screwed either way.

Anyways, I put my money on V/MA/BRK in practice ownership and also stock allocation. That's just me. If you are a risk taker, then more power to ya.
 
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Buying a big practice or starting a practice can be looked like buying a stock.

You can buy Visa, Mastercard, BRK A/B...and you know what you are getting. You are getting solid financials, proven track records, and most likely you will be overpaying for it in this bull market. You buy a practice thats akin to that. Well you know what you are getting. A good patient base, a good story, and goodwill.

Most likely those stocks will continue to do well, and most likely you as a practice owner will to. You won't double your return as those stocks are already valued sky high...and as a business owner you probably aren't going to double the collections and make a killing. You will a solid return on your investment and depending on what kind of practice cash flow you buy...you will be very comfortable. Personally, I increased my collections .04% which it might not seem alot but when you are already in the million range, that's hard to achieve.

Can those stocks end up like KHC, or GE. Yes, it very well can end up that way. Just like buying a stale practice can end up the same way. Just how like your GP who paid 900k ended up like.

Looking at a startup, they have great potentials. If you end up buying something in the market like SQ which literally quadruapled in 2 years, you will be in better shape then investing in BRK A/B. Just like practice ownership. It's much easier to increase collections .04% to 100%. But if your practice ends up like a dud like Blue Apron, Snap, Gopro, then you are seriously screwed.

The bottom line is you do your homework and you do your due diligence. At the end of the day, you have to stomach the risks and you have to know where your risk profile is. If you don't do your investment homework regardless of startup or buying an existing practice, you are screwed either way.

Anyways, I put my money on V/MA/BRK in practice ownership and also stock allocation. That's just me. If you are a risk taker, then more power to ya.

As we've discussed a million times over, and I'm glad you have reiterated the point... a startup can be a lot more profitable if you can get the patient flow and production up quickly. You could stick to a more conservative model, which will yield more predictable results, but it's a slower way of making money. However, I don't think it's as wild of a comparison of an IPO v. established stock, since you have a lot more hands-on control over your startup. If you think your startup is as variable as an IPO, it means that you need to understand how to establish a firmer control over your own business. I've seen one startup struggling so far because the owner is horrendously inflexible when it comes to making the business work. If you don't have the proper mindset of running a business, then practice ownership may be better with systems in place.... BUT you will pay a huge premium.

If you want predictability and financial success, it seems that the most predictable route is a combination of purchasing a practice and above average/extreme frugality. YOLO, so I don't necessarily subscribe to extreme frugality. I'd rather make as much money as possible to be able to have the yolo mentality for the rest of my life, as shallow as that sounds. I don't think I could have achieved that with buying a practice.
 
As we've discussed a million times over, and I'm glad you have reiterated the point... a startup can be a lot more profitable if you can get the patient flow and production up quickly. You could stick to a more conservative model, which will yield more predictable results, but it's a slower way of making money. However, I don't think it's as wild of a comparison of an IPO v. established stock, since you have a lot more hands-on control over your startup. If you think your startup is as variable as an IPO, it means that you need to understand how to establish a firmer control over your own business. I've seen one startup struggling so far because the owner is horrendously inflexible when it comes to making the business work. If you don't have the proper mindset of running a business, then practice ownership may be better with systems in place.... BUT you will pay a huge premium.

If you want predictability and financial success, it seems that the most predictable route is a combination of purchasing a practice and above average/extreme frugality. YOLO, so I don't necessarily subscribe to extreme frugality. I'd rather make as much money as possible to be able to have the yolo mentality for the rest of my life, as shallow as that sounds. I don't think I could have achieved that with buying a practice.


What kind of systems would you say are worth it, is it worth getting systems like Dental Intelligence and E-Assist dental billing to get the ball rolling in a startup or is there even a place for it in an already successful practice?
 
What kind of systems would you say are worth it, is it worth getting systems like Dental Intelligence and E-Assist dental billing to get the ball rolling in a startup or is there even a place for it in an already successful practice?

I'm not a fan of outsourcing dental billing. I have my own billing team and they are better equipped to to everything billing related. You have a lot more control over billing when you keep it in house and you have the billing aspect from start to finish (from converting the patient, to verifying insurance, to submitting claims, to collections). My own systems work in my office for billing, and production is very very close to collections. I have no patients in collections and I have very little writeoffs/adjustments.

I never heard of dental intelligence, it looks just like a fancy open dental with a GUI. It may provide more information, but I'd also be weary of information overload. There is such a thing as having too much irrelevant/non-contextual data. Also, their website seems to try and attract desperate offices that need to blame something for why their offices are not succeeding. That's the vibe I get from them.

In a startup, You have more time than money. I'd rather train the staff to become good at what they do rather than use these services like a crutch. There are some things you can automate and there are some things that would be to your advantage to keep in house.

In a successful practice, it's always hard to make a leap of faith, in terms of determining to implement systems. IF a system that works for an already successful practice is in place, you have to look at how you can improve those systems, and relying on a third party full of promises is like taking a blind leap of faith. Whenever I have a company approach me to change to their system or whatnot, my first question to them is why? What can you do better? Why should I trust you if my system is working already v. you guys who are untested? In these instances, I would insist that they run their system parallel with my existing system and see who is better and also insist that I don't get charged for the first few months of giving their system a try. I am not a fan of changing what works/saturates my system unless they are that confident that they can get my business. Rarely will they ever accept my offer.
 
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I'll give you a resounding hell NO on that... pardon my language.
On paper, sounds great to do all that: implants, grafting, 3rds and IV. I'll knock each one off the to-do list for the following reasons.
Implants - Takes too long, unrealistic expectations; easy to place, difficult to manage complications. Can make lots of money in theory, but not worth the headache of placement. MUCH easier to restore, less problems, instant money.
Grafting - Similar to implants. What happens if it doesn't take hold? Post-op complications, redoing it, it's your time that's getting wasted.
3rd's - Only do easy ones. Less liability, less headache; better patient experiences with you personally if you dont make them swell up or affect their opening
IV Sedation - This attracts the most annoying patients. Phobic, never satisfied but superanxious patients. Makes your procedure easy, but you're most likely married to the patient for awhile especially if you're doing full mouth reconstruction. They can pay 20-40k and expect lifetime warranty... forget that. Your car doesn't last that long, neither will your teeth unless you take care of them

Molar endo is probably the most important procedure to learn. It's the gateway to crown, buildup, and crown lengthening (as needed). Dentures are irrelevant and a money drain in the office. That's why I'm almost rid of them. You really don't want to attract old people in your office since most of their work has either been done, they need dentures, and/or want to talk on forever. First step is don't take medicare or adult medicaid/children's medicaid.


Easy dentistry...Easy Money.
 
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