After medical student suicide, Missouri rep proposed the "Compassionate Medical Education Act".

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Medical student suicide prompts proposed Missouri legislation

The house bill, that passed Thursday, would "establish a committee to study mental illness, suicide and depression in the state's six medical schools. The bill would also prohibit any medical school from restricting a study on the mental health of its students."

The bill was proposed in response to the death of Kevin Dietl, who took his own life just 10 days before graduation from A.T. Still University College of Osteopathic Medicine. Kevin's parents testified in favor of the bill.

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Hammurabi, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Francisco Pizarro, Genghis Khan and other great men once walked this earth, and now they are dead while we are alive. It's sobering to ponder the fact of being alive, when so many great people who changed the world through the sheer power of will have lived and now live no more. What would Alexander the Great do if he woke up from his slumber and found himself in your ~24 year old body, given one more shot at existence?

I can understand and empathize with killing yourself due to a terrible health condition. If you kill yourself because of feelz as a young man though, you're a defective ***** and your body should be unceremoniously dumped on the outskirts of town. Kidding, but not really.

But yes, let's pass a bill and "have a conversation" about the tragic death of this young man+pity+
Surely society failed him and so on so forth.

It's almost like people who take their own lives have some sort of mental illness...
 
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Many with professional or personal experience with mental health issues would find your statement crass. I myself used to not understand until gaining more experience, you may think differently with more exposure.
 
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Hammurabi, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Francisco Pizarro, Genghis Khan and other great men once walked this earth, and now they are dead while we are alive. It's sobering to ponder the fact of being alive, when so many great people who changed the world through the sheer power of will have lived and now live no more. What would Alexander the Great do if he woke up from his slumber and found himself in your ~24 year old body, given one more shot at existence?

I can understand and empathize with killing yourself due to a terrible health condition. If you kill yourself because of feelz as a young man though, you're a defective ***** and your body should be unceremoniously dumped on the outskirts of town. Kidding, but not really.

But yes, let's pass a bill and "have a conversation" about the tragic death of this young man+pity+
Surely society failed him and so on so forth.
I pray for people like you, who are ignorant of the fact of what the stress that comes with being a medical student can do, especially putting who are normally happy into a dark place where they feel is no way out. Having a mental illness does not make you weak, and suicide is not a sign of copping out. The blame is on the medical system in general that doesn't track medical student or resident suicide rates. It is the biggest elephant in the room in medical education.
 
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I pray for people like you, who are ignorant of the fact of what the stress that comes with being a medical student can do, especially putting who are normally happy into a dark place where they feel is no way out. Having a mental illness does not make you weak, and suicide is not a sign of copping out. The blame is on the medical system in general that doesn't track medical student or resident suicide rates. It is the biggest elephant in the room in medical education.

Seeing as I am a medical student, your prayers are misplaced. Not that medical school isn't a crapload of boring drudgery, but I've experienced far, far worse in my previous life and the thought of killing myself never even fleetingly crossed by edges of my consciousness back then, let alone now.

I will say it again: the man did not have mental illness. He killed himself, yes, but the act of killing yourself is not proof of mental illness any more than doing other stupid crap is proof of mental illness. Otherwise, every single person in the history of the world who killed himself, others, or multitudes of others, or done any of a number of similarly dramatically destructive crap has to always be excused as having been "mentally ill" and not at fault.
 
Medical student suicide prompts proposed Missouri legislation

The house bill, that passed Thursday, would "establish a committee to study mental illness, suicide and depression in the state's six medical schools. The bill would also prohibit any medical school from restricting a study on the mental health of its students."

The bill was proposed in response to the death of Kevin Dietl, who took his own life just 10 days before graduation from A.T. Still University College of Osteopathic Medicine. Kevin's parents testified in favor of the bill.
Did the guy match?
 
Yipee. A committee. Way to really put your foot down, representative.
 
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Our man got into med school and went through third year with glowing evals...there is mental illness (crazy as a loon) and then there is "mental illness" and our man was most definitely in the latter category. Dude was simply put weak af and that is the truth of it.

You have to face it: some people are just objectively worse than others and you can't throw the "mental illness" card out there as a universal get out of jail free card.

The Nazis? They da real victimz, mental illness made them do it. WWII would never have happened if universal International Psychiatric Care had been instituted in the original League of Nations charter.

Aaron Hernandez? Poor soul was misunderstood and suffered from mental illness, if only he received the compassionate intervention he was owed by society he'd be catching TDs to this day. We failed him!

Our man the M3? It's not his fault he killed himself like a *******, it's because he didn't receive his required dose of compassion the world owes him.

At what point, if any, do we say "yo, that's his own damn fault" vs "he must have been mentally ill and we failed him?" Do individual humans have agency anymore in this day and age, or are we just some kind of alien hive-mind where agency is a trait possessed only by "society" and the individual can only ever be a victim or a beneficiary of that overarching systemic agency?

If you are a failure, it's because of systemic oppression. If you succeed, it's "you didn't build that" or if you're white it's "white privilege." If you kill yourself because of feelz, it's not because you're a ******* and objectively at fault but it's because of mental illness and society is at fault, we gotta pass a bill. Whatever happened to the idea of free will?

Ladies and gentlemen this is your doctor of tomorrow...
 
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Hammurabi, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Francisco Pizarro, Genghis Khan and other great men once walked this earth, and now they are dead while we are alive. It's sobering to ponder the fact of being alive, when so many great people who changed the world through the sheer power of will have lived and now live no more. What would Alexander the Great do if he woke up from his slumber and found himself in your ~24 year old body, given one more shot at existence?

I can understand and empathize with killing yourself due to a terrible health condition. If you kill yourself because of feelz as a young man though, you're a defective ***** and your body should be unceremoniously dumped on the outskirts of town. Kidding, but not really.

But yes, let's pass a bill and "have a conversation" about the tragic death of this young man+pity+
Surely society failed him and so on so forth.


I wish I had four hands, so I could give this post "four thumbs down"
 
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Seeing as I am a medical student, your prayers are misplaced. Not that medical school isn't a crapload of boring drudgery, but I've experienced far, far worse in my previous life and the thought of killing myself never even fleetingly crossed by edges of my consciousness back then, let alone now.

I will say it again: the man did not have mental illness. He killed himself, yes, but the act of killing yourself is not proof of mental illness any more than doing other stupid crap is proof of mental illness. Otherwise, every single person in the history of the world who killed himself, others, or multitudes of others, or done any of a number of similarly dramatically destructive crap has to always be excused as having been "mentally ill" and not at fault.


So you're going into general surgery you say?
 
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Hammurabi, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Francisco Pizarro, Genghis Khan and other great men once walked this earth, and now they are dead while we are alive. It's sobering to ponder the fact of being alive, when so many great people who changed the world through the sheer power of will have lived and now live no more. What would Alexander the Great do if he woke up from his slumber and found himself in your ~24 year old body, given one more shot at existence?

I can understand and empathize with killing yourself due to a terrible health condition. If you kill yourself because of feelz as a young man though, you're a defective ***** and your body should be unceremoniously dumped on the outskirts of town. Kidding, but not really.

But yes, let's pass a bill and "have a conversation" about the tragic death of this young man+pity+
Surely society failed him and so on so forth.

Not only are you a piece of **** but you are pretty stupid too. Go learn about something before saying inflammatory, dumb things.
 
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Seeing as I am a medical student, your prayers are misplaced. Not that medical school isn't a crapload of boring drudgery, but I've experienced far, far worse in my previous life and the thought of killing myself never even fleetingly crossed by edges of my consciousness back then, let alone now.

I will say it again: the man did not have mental illness. He killed himself, yes, but the act of killing yourself is not proof of mental illness any more than doing other stupid crap is proof of mental illness. Otherwise, every single person in the history of the world who killed himself, others, or multitudes of others, or done any of a number of similarly dramatically destructive crap has to always be excused as having been "mentally ill" and not at fault.

So you must have known him personally if you know he didn't have mental illness, otherwise how could you be so knowledgeable about his situation. I also find the idea that you think the only aspect of medical school that could cause mental problems to be the "boring drudgery" to be a cop out and a ridiculous assessment of the pressures that go along with the overall experience. Maybe he had hundreds of thousands in debt and doesn't know how he'll pay it off. Maybe he had other family issues going on. Maybe the pressure of literally having someone's life in your hands and being responsible for whether they live or die started weighing on him too heavily. Maybe the idea that he knew he was sick but if he asked for help people like you would say "stop being a baby and deal with it" started getting to him. Maybe the idea that if he admitted he had depression he would be risking getting hired in the future sunk in. It's not like he wasn't showing signs of depression like social withdrawal or physical symptoms like losing his hair. Oh wait, he did. Guess maybe underlying mental illness really did play a role in his situation and you don't know what you're talking about.

Either way, your flippancy about another person's life is sad, and I find the idea that someone with such little empathy as yourself actually might be treating people someday to be disconcerting.
 
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Ladies and gentlemen this is your doctor of tomorrow...

And mack-daddy of today.

But for real, while I appreciate all the uncreative insults thrown my way, it'd be good if someone could step in and answer the damn question: is there ever a time when someone's stupid-arse actions can be blamed solely on that person vs shifting the blame to "society" or "mental illness?"
 
Medical student suicide prompts proposed Missouri legislation

The house bill, that passed Thursday, would "establish a committee to study mental illness, suicide and depression in the state's six medical schools. The bill would also prohibit any medical school from restricting a study on the mental health of its students."

The bill was proposed in response to the death of Kevin Dietl, who took his own life just 10 days before graduation from A.T. Still University College of Osteopathic Medicine. Kevin's parents testified in favor of the bill.
Yeah, that'll solve the problem.

Anyone notice how all of the medical students who commit suicide just so happen to be mentally ill? It's at the point where I think medical schools will purposely start trying to tack on histories of mental illness onto any students they find unseemly just to be absolved of any responsibility should they commit suicide.

This is a step back in terms of student rights/health/support/etc., not a step forward. Honestly I find the whole thing kind of sleezy.
 
And mack-daddy of today.

But for real, while I appreciate all the uncreative insults thrown my way, it'd be good if someone could step in and answer the damn question: is there ever a time when someone's stupid-arse actions can be blamed solely on that person vs shifting the blame to "society" or "mental illness?"

Yes it's called the dsm... or in this case common sense
 
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And mack-daddy of today.

But for real, while I appreciate all the uncreative insults thrown my way, it'd be good if someone could step in and answer the damn question: is there ever a time when someone's stupid-arse actions can be blamed solely on that person vs shifting the blame to "society" or "mental illness?"

All the godd*** time, but when someone has clear signs of mental illness, both socially and physically, and it goes completely unnoticed or ignored until they kill themselves, then it's legitimately stupid to argue that mental illness didn't play a role. Yes, he made the decision to take his life, but you can't sit there and say that decision would have been the same if he were mentally healthy. To do so shows a complete lack of understanding of basic psychology/psychiatry as well as common sense.
 
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Yeah, that'll solve the problem.

Anyone notice how all of the medical students who commit suicide just so happen to be mentally ill? It's at the point where I think medical schools will purposely start trying to tack on histories of mental illness onto any students they find unseemly just to be absolved of any responsibility should they commit suicide.

This is a step back in terms of student rights/health/support/etc., not a step forward. Honestly I find the whole thing kind of sleezy.

If mental illness was actually addressed and considered at medical schools like it should be then I'd agree with you, but it's so often swept under the rug or just completely ignored that I find it more disturbing that it's just now being talked about. We had a presentation given by a counselor at our school during our school's "wellness week" a year ago. She said that in my class (of 250+ people), around 1/3 of us saw either the school psychiatrist or counselor on a regular basis (once a month or more) and over 20% of us had been prescribed a medication to treat either depression or anxiety. Our med school isn't special or particularly neurotic, in fact I'd say my class is far more down to earth than classes at other schools where my friends attend(ed) and people generally seem happier in my class. If that many people in my class are having problems addressed, I can't imagine how many people at other schools should be getting help.

If the goal of the bill is to raise awareness, try to identify the actual incidence/prevalence of mental illness in med school, and do something to actually help keep med students sane then I'm all for it. Imo it only becomes sleezy if med schools don't do anything to help fix the problems that are found.
 
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This is a sensitive and difficult topic for many. Trivializing mental illness, especially inappropriate posts not in keeping with the spirit of productive discussion will be met with disciplinary action.
 
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Seeing as I am a medical student, your prayers are misplaced. Not that medical school isn't a crapload of boring drudgery, but I've experienced far, far worse in my previous life and the thought of killing myself never even fleetingly crossed by edges of my consciousness back then, let alone now.

I will say it again: the man did not have mental illness. He killed himself, yes, but the act of killing yourself is not proof of mental illness any more than doing other stupid crap is proof of mental illness. Otherwise, every single person in the history of the world who killed himself, others, or multitudes of others, or done any of a number of similarly dramatically destructive crap has to always be excused as having been "mentally ill" and not at fault.
Lovely tool, that Banhammer. Just saying.
 
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Bull. Any reasonable moderating of this forum would immediately ban that *******. Instead you're too busy deleting classic threads that define the site .

The appropriate action has been taken, the user's account is on hold.
Additionally, the "classic" thread was never deleted, and it is currently being reviewed and discussed by the moderation staff.

Moving thread to Topics in Healthcare forum.
 
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Ah yes after literally hundreds of users protested and the grown ups finally got involved. Really inspires confidence.

If you wish to continue this discussion, it can be done via PM or in the Lounge thread discussing the matter, as it's off topic for this thread. But major decisions, including that one, are made by multiple moderators. I know it was carried out by a newer pre-med moderator, and that's all that people see, but there were others involved in the decision, including senior-level moderators.
 
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Even I might be a bit speechless here.

I think we have to admire admin here for not banning this member and instead letting them cool down with an account hold time out, as this does indeed represent a very emotionally charged topic.

Somewhere in that emotionally fueled posting are a few points that when presented in a less than scorched earth manner may make some sense. But not in present form.

In the end, the member does have a right to express their opinion, and we can easily ignore/block them as well.
 
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To add to this action: While the offending posts in question have been removed, we did not go through each post and edit out the quoted content. As we have received many reports from users who were offended, we respectfully ask that those who quoted the post remove the quote from their post. Thank you.



Even I might be a bit speechless here.

I think we have to admire admin here for not banning this member and instead letting them cool down with an account hold time out, as this does indeed represent a very emotionally charged topic.

I'm really just following SOP here. Nothing new or groundbreaking. No one (except for spammers and returned banned trolls) get insta-banned no matter who calls for it.

Now how about we let the discussion get back to the OP...
 
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