Advice: whether to apply this cycle or wait until the next.

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snow36

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So I recently decided I wanted to apply but I wasn't sure if I should attempt this cycle or wait until the next.

The big hurdles for me now are a lack of clinical volunteering experience and starting the application process late [I'd be submitting my pre-health committee letter packet now, which is late for them and would involve my committee letter not being sent until late august, early september]. On the contrary, if I don't apply this cycle my MCAT will expire.

In terms of my stats: cGPA is 3.579, sGPA 3.568, MCAT 513 (129 [Chem and Phys], 131 [Bio], 125[CARS], 128[Psyc]). Both GPAs have been relatively stable throughout undergrad. I have some clinical shadowing experience [one psychiatrist, one primary care small clinic, various research clinicians - rounds], some other leadership experience [tutoring volunteer coordinator] and extensive research exposure [two labs: three different projects, 1 paper in the process of being written, a few poster presentations].

What do you guys think/what would you do in this situation?

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Are you set on MD? Or would you be open to DO as well?

Also, what's your state of residence?
 
Are you set on MD? Or would you be open to DO as well?

Also, what's your state of residence?
Im open to DO but I havent explored the application process for DO schools. I was planning to apply to allopathic this round via amcas. My state is maryland.
 
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So I recently decided I wanted to apply but I wasn't sure if I should attempt this cycle or wait until the next.

The big hurdles for me now are a lack of clinical volunteering experience and starting the application process late [I'd be submitting my pre-health committee letter packet now, which is late for them and would involve my committee letter not being sent until late august, early september]. On the contrary, if I don't apply this cycle my MCAT will expire.

In terms of my stats: cGPA is 3.579, sGPA 3.568, MCAT 513 (129 [Chem and Phys], 131 [Bio], 125[CARS], 128[Psyc]). Both GPAs have been relatively stable throughout undergrad. I have some clinical shadowing experience [one psychiatrist, one primary care small clinic, various research clinicians - rounds], some other leadership experience [tutoring volunteer coordinator] and extensive research exposure [two labs: three different projects, 1 paper in the process of being written, a few poster presentations].

What do you guys think/what would you do in this situation?
Without patient contact experience, your chances are poor. Apply when you have the best possible app, even if it means skipping a cycle. Med schools aren't going anywhere.
 
If your assuming your MCAT will expire after this cycle thats not entirely true. Yes most schools is 3 years prior to matriculation but I've found 15+ schools where they take MCAT from 3 years within application. Based on that you could wait and apply to these specific schools where it didn't expire. Some were case, BU, tufts, st louis, miami, wake forest, einstein, emory, umass, uconn, ohio state, rochester etc. I found all this on the new MSAR and the websites of the schools
 
If your assuming your MCAT will expire after this cycle thats not entirely true. Yes most schools is 3 years prior to matriculation but I've found 15+ schools where they take MCAT from 3 years within application. Based on that you could wait and apply to these specific schools where it didn't expire. Some were case, BU, tufts, st louis, miami, wake forest, einstein, emory, umass, uconn, ohio state, rochester etc. I found all this on the new MSAR and the websites of the schools
I took a look here and it's just a handful of schools. It really sucks but is understandable. And I'd rather not limit my choices so I'll likely be taking it again.
 
So I recently decided I wanted to apply but I wasn't sure if I should attempt this cycle or wait until the next.

The big hurdles for me now are a lack of clinical volunteering experience and starting the application process late [I'd be submitting my pre-health committee letter packet now, which is late for them and would involve my committee letter not being sent until late august, early september]. On the contrary, if I don't apply this cycle my MCAT will expire.

In terms of my stats: cGPA is 3.579, sGPA 3.568, MCAT 513 (129 [Chem and Phys], 131 [Bio], 125[CARS], 128[Psyc]). Both GPAs have been relatively stable throughout undergrad. I have some clinical shadowing experience [one psychiatrist, one primary care small clinic, various research clinicians - rounds], some other leadership experience [tutoring volunteer coordinator] and extensive research exposure [two labs: three different projects, 1 paper in the process of being written, a few poster presentations].

What do you guys think/what would you do in this situation?
Don't waste your time or money this cycle. Start gaining active clinical experience through work or volunteering ASAP.
 
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Looks like I'm in a minority, but 3.6/32-33, good volunteerism and research and shadowing, and complete late August does not sound disastrous to me. How many hours would you say you have to put down for shadowing and non-clinical volunteering? What state are you from? Race/URM?
 
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Looks like I'm in a minority, but 3.6/32-33, good volunteerism and research and shadowing, and complete late August does not sound disastrous to me. How many hours would you say you have to put down for shadowing and non-clinical volunteering? What state are you from? Race/URM?
Mixed background (BL/WH) - so URM. Shadowing - around 50 (25 primary care setting, 25 hr research setting). Non clinical volunteering- research volunteer, child activity organizer/tutor ~100 hours
 
Being a URM is a golden ticket in the app process, apply and you will get in especially with your stats.

Good luck
 
Okay so I've gotten mixed comments here. I feel like waiting but I will have to re-take the MCAT (I don't completely mind it but I'm not necessarily too excited to do it again). I cannot get a committee letter either (application is past deadline). Applying next cycle my ECs will be stronger but I'm risking my MCAT. I can apply now to schools with no preference for committee letter but I feel underprepared to be honest. I'm unsure if that's something everyone feels going in.

What kind of range of error am I looking at with the MCAT retake - if I re-score and get 1-3 points below my present score (510-512) will it significantly impact my chances?
 
Okay so I've gotten mixed comments here. I feel like waiting but I will have to re-take the MCAT (I don't completely mind it but I'm not necessarily too excited to do it again). I cannot get a committee letter either (application is past deadline). Applying next cycle my ECs will be stronger but I'm risking my MCAT. I can apply now to schools with no preference for committee letter but I feel underprepared to be honest. I'm unsure if that's something everyone feels going in.

What kind of range of error am I looking at with the MCAT retake - if I re-score and get 1-3 points below my present score (510-512) will it significantly impact my chances?
You only had some mixed comments because it was not clear in your OP that you are URM. If you posted a new thread in WAMC in which you make it clear you would be a black applicant with a 3.6/33 and those ECs, you will be overwhelmingly told that you do not need a gap year.

As context, your odds are the same as a white applicant with a 3.9/37 - there is seriously no reason at all to be considering MCAT retake and/or gap year.
 
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You only had some mixed comments because it was not clear in your OP that you are URM. If you posted a new thread in WAMC in which you make it clear you would be a black applicant with a 3.6/33 and those ECs, you will be overwhelmingly told that you do not need a gap year.

As context, your odds are the same as a white applicant with a 3.9/37 - there is seriously no reason at all to be considering MCAT retake and/or gap year.

I was not aware med schools practiced affirmative action to the same degree as undergraduate institutions. Very interesting.
 
I was not aware med schools practiced affirmative action to the same degree as undergraduate institutions. Very interesting.

Its ridiculous how much they practice it to be honest sometimes it feels like they're looking to practice it and not just take the best candidates available (not to say some URM applicants aren't the best candidates)
 
Its ridiculous how much they practice it to be honest sometimes it feels like they're looking to practice it and not just take the best candidates available (not to say some URM applicants aren't the best candidates)

Here's another way to look at it. From 2013-2016 (three cycles) there were 3,523 white applicants with OP's stats. In this same timeframe there were 91 black/AA applicants with comparable numbers. If you combine those applicants, the resulting pool is 97.5% white, 2.5% black/AA. High stat URM's are unicorns, so yeah, they get in at a pretty high rate.

As for the overall system, African Americans comprise ~13% of the total US population but only ~7% of medical school applicants. Whites gain acceptance at an overall rate of ~45%, for black/AA applicants it's about 36%.

In other words, if we are practicing affirmative action to a "ridiculous" extent, we aren't doing a very good job at it.
 
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I was not aware med schools practiced affirmative action to the same degree as undergraduate institutions. Very interesting.

Its ridiculous how much they practice it to be honest sometimes it feels like they're looking to practice it and not just take the best candidates available (not to say some URM applicants aren't the best candidates)

This has been discussed ad nauseum in SDN. High stats are just one part of the app, and there are medical outcomes riding in recruiting URMs to Medicine.
 
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I was not aware med schools practiced affirmative action to the same degree as undergraduate institutions. Very interesting.
The logic behind it is very different though. For undergrad the justification is that you need diversity on the campus to receive a proper education. For medical school you instead have to start talking about underserved patient populations, and what kinds of med students are likely to go to those communities / what kinds of physicians those communities would trust and seek medical care from.
 
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In other words, if we are practicing affirmative action to a "ridiculous" extent, we aren't doing a very good job at it.
Could it really be dialed up any more than currently? Already the majority of applicants with a 24-26 MCAT get in, if you start going lower than that (and most of the AA applicant pool scored 23 and lower) don't you start running big risks of struggling to complete the education?
 
. . .I cannot get a committee letter either (application is past deadline). . .

Many schools prefer a committee letter if the school has that option. I'm not sure how Med schools will view (application is past deadline). Maybe an ADCOM can respond that issue. It might not be a problem at all but it might be.



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The logic behind it is very different though. For undergrad the justification is that you need diversity on the campus to receive a proper education. For medical school you instead have to start talking about underserved patient populations, and what kinds of med students are likely to go to those communities / what kinds of physicians those communities would trust and seek medical care from.

This actually makes sense! Thanks for the explanation.
 
Could it really be dialed up any more than currently? Already the majority of applicants with a 24-26 MCAT get in, if you start going lower than that (and most of the AA applicant pool scored 23 and lower) don't you start running big risks of struggling to complete the education?

You do, but it depends on what outcome you're looking for. The five year graduation rate for MCAT scores in the 21-23 range is 85%, and for scores in the 18-20 range that graduation rate only drops to 80%. Now, without bringing up a host of issues related to five versus four year graduation, or the likelihood of completing residency and achieving board certification, the argument goes something like this:

If we admit 1,000 URMs with MCAT scores in the 18-23 range, in five years we have 800+ additional URM doctors who otherwise would not exist.
 
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Being a URM is a golden ticket in the app process, apply and you will get in especially with your stats.

Good luck


Not exactly. There are a number of URMs rejected every cycle.

Its ridiculous how much they practice it to be honest sometimes it feels like they're looking to practice it and not just take the best candidates available (not to say some URM applicants aren't the best candidates)

You sound bitter. Best candidates based on what? Stats. . . Is that what you mean? You sound ridiculous whining about the minuscule number of seats that go to URMs each year (at non-HBUs).
 
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You do, but it depends on what outcome you're looking for. The five year graduation rate for MCAT scores in the 21-23 range is 85%, and for scores in the 18-20 range that graduation rate only drops to 80%. Now, without bringing up a host of issues related to five versus four year graduation, or the likelihood of completing residency and achieving board certification, the argument goes something like this:

If we admit 1,000 URMs with MCAT scores in the 18-23 range, in five years we have 800+ additional URM doctors who otherwise would not exist.
Huh, interesting ethical dilemma. If I can admit a bunch of URM applicants knowing that 15-20% are going to pick up crushing debt, slave a few years of life away and end up failing in the end, is it ethical to be admitting that cohort? Where should a line be drawn, 1 in 3 failing? 1 in 4?
 
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Take a look at MSAR now that stats have been updated for new MCAT. You are competitive at state schools without being an URM, despite what you hear (average matriculant 506 at quite a few, despite the GPA average being 3.7). Unless you have a specific top 20 school you want to go to (by taking advantage of URM status), apply this cycle. Honestly it's ridiculous that people would suggest you take a year off when you wouldn't be able to improve those stats and could only marginally improve your ECs.
 
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