Advice Needed: Should I Quit Pre-Med?

[throwawayaccount321]

Hey all,

As some background info I am going to be a senior this year and my majors are psychology and neuroscience. I come from a very stereotypical Asian background where growing up, my parents drilled into my head that if I don't become a doctor or an engineer I'm basically a total failure and a disappointment. I took computer science in high school and was pretty bad at it despite finding it interesting (I was an all A student, but barely got a B- or C+ in the class), so when I went to college I thought I'd give the pre-med route a try. Right now I'm having major doubts about my ability to even get into a good medical school, let alone survive 8 years of med school and residency.

For reference, here are my stats:
GPA: 3.68
MCAT: 503 (I can retake this, just not sure if it's worth retaking if I quit pre-med)
Extracurriculars: shadowing, volunteer work, mentoring/tutoring, but no research atm

As it is, I'm already freaking out about whether I even have what it takes to do significantly better on the MCAT again, as well as whether my GPA or EC's are even good enough. On top of all that, even if I am good enough to get into med school, I'm seriously debating about whether I can continue with this much stress for all of med school and residency (which I've heard so many horror stories about).

All around I'm just conflicted abut if this what I'm meant to do with my life. The problem is that if I drop pre-med for something else, I'll feel like I've wasted the last 3 years of my life. That absolutely terrifies me, knowing I've wasted all those years for nothing.

I've thought about switching to pre-dental, going to grad school, or even just restarting over and doing something in IT or Actuarial Sciences, but honestly I'm a total mess right now and I have NO clue what to do with my future. Any advice at all, especially from those who were in a similar situation at one point, would be greatly appreciated. I know that was a long-winded rant, so thank you to anyone who took the time to read all that.

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[Medic741]

I'd highly recommend talking to a mental health professional about these feelings -- they're real & it's so easy to make bad decisions from this frame of mind.

Finishing premed is a furnace... application process is a furnace... Goro makes it clear that medical school is even more intense.

It's ok to change directions, but you gotta be in a good mental 'place' to abandon something you've been working on for so many years

 

[UBLI-EINSTEIN]

I didn't see a huge issue other than the low MCAT. I think DO is still possible to you, but I would suggest a retaking.
You may also switch major if you want, but I hope you get your mind clear enough and then make the decision.
Giving up the med school will not kill you right away. Neither does staying on this track.
I would believe nothing is a wasting of time. The important thing is whether you regret what you've done so far.

If you freaked out simply because of low MCAT. I didn't think such concern should stay for long. This is a issue but you also have a huge potential to improve.
Also, it's not required to have research. Shadowing and other clinical experience is more important. So don't need to worry it too much.

 

[kwu]

I don't think your stats are the issue here. You are not an "automatic rejection" if you applied to US medical schools. However, I am worried about your confidence and the ability to handle medical school curriculum. I believe that one has to have the passion, and the ability to face the difficult road of medical school. As much as I want you to believe in yourself and your self-efficacy, but I also want you to know the reality. The journey to becoming a doctor is NOT easy.

I suggest you sit alone and reflect on your situation. Are you ready to handle +/- 8 years of hard work and dedication?

 

[Turkishking]

Yes. Switch

 

[throwawayaccount321]

I didn't see a huge issue other than the low MCAT. I think DO is still possible to you, but I would suggest a retaking.
You may also switch major if you want, but I hope you get your mind clear enough and then make the decision.
Giving up the med school will not kill you right away. Neither does staying on this track.
I would believe nothing is a wasting of time. The important thing is whether you regret what you've done so far.

If you freaked out simply because of low MCAT. I didn't think such concern should stay for long. This is a issue but you also have a huge potential to improve.
Also, it's not required to have research. Shadowing and other clinical experience is more important. So don't need to worry it too much.

To answer the MCAT freak out question: my low score was more of a "straw that broke the camel's back" situation. I've always been a ridiculously indecisive person and had been having doubts about what I want to do career-wise since high school, and even in freshman and sophomore year of college I basically changed my major three times. Honestly, the reason I'm just having all these major doubts now is that back in freshman and sophomore years I would just tell myself it's okay to not know what you're doing yet, college is all about experimenting, etc. But now that I'm a senior and facing application deadlines, I realize that I still have no clue what I really want to do. This time, I have a set deadline of a couple of months to figure it out, otherwise I miss out on this application cycle and am forced to do a gap year (which is my nightmare scenario). All that pressure to "make the right choice" terrifies me.

With that being said, I'm not sure if I'm cut out for anything besides the medical route. The reason I brought up possible options like IT or becoming an actuary is because I know they're stable jobs, but I don't really have passion for them (but hey, better bored and having a stable job than being unemployed). I at least have some passion for becoming a doctor (whether that's enough to survive 8+ years of med school/residency, I honestly can't say at this point).

Regarding DO, I think it's a possibility, but at the same time it feels a bit late to change. Like, applications are due in just a few months, is that really enough time to study for the DAT and do shadowing for dentists on top of that? I've never even considered being a dentist before this week, and I feel like dentist schools will see right through me. But I'm just trying to keep my options open for now.

 

[quietninja72]

Regarding DO, I think it's a possibility, but at the same time it feels a bit late to change. Like, applications are due in just a few months, is that really enough time to study for the DAT and do shadowing for dentists on top of that? I've never even considered being a dentist before this week, and I feel like dentist schools will see right through me. But I'm just trying to keep my options open for now.

So DO isn't dentistry, it's doctor of osteopathic medicine. You'd practice in the same capacity and locations as MDs but it's generally regarded as a little less stat-intensive to apply so you may not need to retake your mcat if you go the DO route.

I will admit I'm not 100% knowledgeable on DO since I went the MD route, so someone else please feel free to add on/correct me, but the main difference is that they teach what's called Osteomanipulative treatment or OMT (I hope I got that acronym right). Basically a more hands on way of treating symptoms, exactly what it sounds like. But from what I've read not all DOs actually use that in practice. I'm also pretty sure they have different board exams through med school and separate residencies, but now the MD match is allowing DOs to apply there too so there are many opportunities!


Edit: It would also be remiss of me to not mention that while there is some stigma of MD > DO, that seems to be disappearing as the older generation retires and the newer generations take over. I've always found the prestige argument over the letters behind the name to be a bit silly if you have all the same privileges, but I wanted to add that in full disclosure of my knowledge on DO.

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[throwawayaccount321]

So DO isn't dentistry, it's doctor of osteopathic medicine. You'd practice in the same capacity and locations as MDs but it's generally regarded as a little less stat-intensive to apply so you may not need to retake your mcat if you go the DO route.

I will admit I'm not 100% knowledgeable on DO since I went the MD route, so someone else please feel free to add on/correct me, but the main difference is that they teach what's called Osteomanipulative treatment or OMT (I hope I got that acronym right). Basically a more hands on way of treating symptoms, exactly what it sounds like. But from what I've read not all DOs actually use that in practice. I'm also pretty sure they have different board exams through med school and separate residencies, but now the MD match is allowing DOs to apply there too so there are many opportunities!


Edit: It would also be remiss of me to not mention that while there is some stigma of MD > DO, that seems to be disappearing as the older generation retires and the newer generations take over. I've always found the prestige argument over the letters behind the name to be a bit silly if you have all the same privileges, but I wanted to add that in full disclosure of my knowledge on DO.

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Thank you for the clarification, I hadn't realized what DO stood for. After doing some research my state only has 1 DO school, and while their MCAT average is a bit lower than all my local MD schools it looks like I'll have to retake the MCAT regardless since I'm still below the DO average. I also didn't mention this earlier, but there's a pretty big gap between my highest and lowest scoring sections on the MCAT: 128 for psych/socio vs. 123 for Bio. From what I've read admissions offices hate these kind of gaps and prefer consistency.

Based on advice from this thread I'll probably just hunker down and retake the MCAT in a month or two, just to keep the pre-med option open. I would still love to hear advice about the plausibility of switching though. Does anyone know someone personally who has been in a similar situation (thinking of switching completely senior year)?

 

[quietninja72]

No problem! I'd suggest also looking out of state if it's an option for you. I also am terrible at new mcat scores so I don't know what those correlate to, but I think you have a good plan to retake, just make sure you're as ready as you can be when the time comes to take it.

As for switching, I can't say I know anyone who made a severe change in their plan, but that's not to say it doesn't happen. I do have some friends who decided to go into engineering jobs/grad school instead of med school in senior year (after mcat and even after applying/some interviews for two of them) but we were all already in engineering so that didn't require a huge change. With psych and neuro as majors, depending on how much math you've done, you may actually be able to do some masters programs in engineering, but that would be something you'd need to investigate.

I think a lot of what you need to do is some soul searching. You mentioned you shadowed, how much/how did you feel about your experience? Was it something that you enjoyed? I know shadowing can get boring after a bit but were you able to see yourself being in the doctor's shoes? Have you seen different specialties to see if something else interests you?

My best advice right now would be to study for an mcat retake if you feel up to it, plan on a gap year where you're either working in research (if you enjoy it) or maybe even try to scribe with some volunteering or shadowing if you feel you need to bulk up those areas and get more exposure. Or just take some time off and travel or do something completely out of the medical field. But a gap year where you're not directly in the throes of school even if you're doing other work/activities can help to realign your thoughts and hopefully clear up the direction you want to take your life. Sorry I rambled, but I hope you got something out of it!


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[throwawayaccount321]

As for switching, I can't say I know anyone who made a severe change in their plan, but that's not to say it doesn't happen. I do have some friends who decided to go into engineering jobs/grad school instead of med school in senior year (after mcat and even after applying/some interviews for two of them) but we were all already in engineering so that didn't require a huge change. With psych and neuro as majors, depending on how much math you've done, you may actually be able to do some masters programs in engineering, but that would be something you'd need to investigate.

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Oh, man. Reading this physically hurts. I started off freshman year as an Engineering major, but always had a passion for psychology. It's just such an inherently interesting subject, and I was drawn to it in high school so I figured I'd declare that as my official major sophomore year. My logic was if I'm pre-med anyway, I might as well do a major I enjoy. If I had a time machine, I would go back. Sure, it's a fun subject, but it's frankly not practical as a major unless I want to do research (I don't). I'm seriously kicking myself for ever changing majors, and not just doing Engineering + pre-med to have kept both options open like your friends did. I don't think I'll ever forgive myself for that decision.

Regarding shadowing, I actually have shadowed for a few different specialties (cardiology, pulmonology, etc.) The thing is... I've always felt just "neutral" about it. I thought their jobs were interesting and certainly rewarding. But at the same time, I never had a singular moment where I went "A-ha! This IS my calling, after all!" Honestly, the specialty I'm most interested in is psychiatry, but now I'm even doubting that. To be honest, the thing I'm most passionate about is writing. I know it's stupid, but I've always leaned towards the creative arts and my dream job would be to become an author or a reviewer. Unfortunately, I know the chances of getting a well-paying career in that field are... well, probably less than getting a perfect MCAT with my eyes closed for every question! So I've basically told myself to just "settle" for a well-paying job so I can focus on financial security, and then just enjoy things that bring me enjoyment as side hobbies...

I don't know. It's all just so confusing to sort through and the more I think about it, the more overwhelmed and hopeless I feel. All my friends and everyone I know have had their career paths worked out since high school, yet here I am torturing myself at the eleventh hour. Like, it's crazy to me. I'm only in my early 20's, how am I supposed to figure out what I'm going to do for the next 4-5 DECADES of my life?! I know people in this thread have suggested taking time to think about it, but I've never been good at "soul searching", as you can probably tell. I just keep playing "What If?" scenarios in my head and kicking myself over how stupid I've been at decision-making these past few years.

 

[Swan Ronson]

two cents:

calm down. its neither unusual nor damning to have questions about your career path. plenty of people do. that's why there is such a thing as career-changers and post bacs and whatnot. also why there are MDs and med school dropouts working in government, consulting, investment banking, you name it. off the top of my head i can name you (1) a biochem major who was dead set on premed until senior year and pivoted into a really solid banking job, (2) a boarded ophthalmologist who left practice to go work for a portfolio manager, and (3) a family med doc who went to work for an insurance company. all 3 are -- hopefully needless to say -- financially secure and happy. scientific knowledge is a relatively niche education base in a lot of industries, so there will be options for you in other fields. rest assured. particularly with what looks like a strong u grad track record. it'll be okay.

here's the net net of that paragraph: pre med is harder than other majors. scientific and biomedical fluency is desirable in industries outside medicine. if you've shown the ability to succeed with rigorous coursework and have acquired a valuable knowledge base, you are a hirable candidate in different fields. college is designed to make you just that -- someone who can get a good job somewhere. thus your three years have in no way shape or form been a waste. (a dirty little secret is that you don't actually learn anything in u grad, you just show that you're capable of learning something...and you've done that)

don't worry about the next forty or fifty years. think about the next two or three. if you're this torn, MAYBE talk to career services at your school about other things you can do. MAYBE find a position that will let you pay rent for 2-3 years, volunteer at a hospital or clinic, and try and compare your two experiences. do you like a typical clock-puncher or do you look forward to getting off work and getting back into a clinical scene? emphasis on the MAYBE because I'm not your counselor nor your life-coach. these are purely suggestions.

final tidbit: there's a reason the average age of matriculation into medical school is climbing. you would be the furthest thing from unusual starting med school at 24-25. brief math: start at 25, spend 4 years in school, do maybe a 5 year residency, you're now 34. you've got at least 30 years to practice medicine. you won't miss out on much if you play with a couple years on the front end. who knows? you might even be more mature and prepared to handle school...imagine that?

just my thoughts. certainly not gospel.

 

[McRibs]

Hey all,

...I'll feel like I've wasted the last 3 years of my life. That absolutely terrifies me, knowing I've wasted all those years for nothing.

Straight as an arrow Pre-K -> MD career paths are the exception, not the rule.

Time not spent running head-long into medicine is only wasted if you look at it as wasted time.

 

[Doctor or bust]

If you aren't sure you want to go into medicine I think it would be a recipe for disaster. If you are just toughing it out right now imagine that feeling for the rest of your life. Do what makes you happy, if its medicine, great, you're on the right track, if not, figure out what you really want.

Try to think of it this way, if you had to move away and leave all your friends and family behind and money wasn't an issue, what would be the thing that you would want to do with your time. Figure out what is most important to you and run with it. Medicine isn't for everyone and shouldn't be.Also, your time wasn't wasted, you spent it pursuing two degrees and getting good grades doing it.

TL;DR Avoid living your life based on the sunk-cost fallacy and do what makes you happy, you have autonomy, utilize it.

 

[AttemptingScholar]

There's a lot of great advice about where to go in this thread that you should definitely pay attention to. I have an extra thought regarding whether or not you should continue.

I think, at 15, saying "I have this job because my parents made me" is normal. At 30, it kind of makes you look whiney and unable to control your own life. I don't know where exactly in the middle it switches from one to the other, but eventually, you're gonna get to that point. Physicians generally benefit from deciding a little sooner because of the expensive, highly specialized training.

Do medicine for you. It sucks to redecide what to do with your life towards the end of college, but it will suck more to be towards the end of medical school, $200k in debt, realizing you really don't want to do this. Someday you will make a choice that disappoints your parents. Why not today?

 

[kozmo1994]

Don't feel that way and don't listen to your parents, I am Arab- American and trust me all Asian parents have the same mentality. You didn't waste three years of your life and all the classes that you took count for similar fields like medicine. Here you go list of professions that make six figures and have almost the same pre-req's of medicine
- Physician assistant
- Physical therapy
- Occupational therapy
- Pharmacy
- Dentistry
You have a great GPA and a decent mcat score, I don't think you would have any problem matching to any of the fields above nor going back to med if you change your mind
Do whatever makes you happy and don't listen to all the negative opinions on SDN
Good luck!!!!

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Hey all,

As some background info I am going to be a senior this year and my majors are psychology and neuroscience. I come from a very stereotypical Asian background where growing up, my parents drilled into my head that if I don't become a doctor or an engineer I'm basically a total failure and a disappointment. I took computer science in high school and was pretty bad at it despite finding it interesting (I was an all A student, but barely got a B- or C+ in the class), so when I went to college I thought I'd give the pre-med route a try. Right now I'm having major doubts about my ability to even get into a good medical school, let alone survive 8 years of med school and residency.

For reference, here are my stats:
GPA: 3.68
MCAT: 503 (I can retake this, just not sure if it's worth retaking if I quit pre-med)
Extracurriculars: shadowing, volunteer work, mentoring/tutoring, but no research atm

As it is, I'm already freaking out about whether I even have what it takes to do significantly better on the MCAT again, as well as whether my GPA or EC's are even good enough. On top of all that, even if I am good enough to get into med school, I'm seriously debating about whether I can continue with this much stress for all of med school and residency (which I've heard so many horror stories about).

All around I'm just conflicted abut if this what I'm meant to do with my life. The problem is that if I drop pre-med for something else, I'll feel like I've wasted the last 3 years of my life. That absolutely terrifies me, knowing I've wasted all those years for nothing.

I've thought about switching to pre-dental, going to grad school, or even just restarting over and doing something in IT or Actuarial Sciences, but honestly I'm a total mess right now and I have NO clue what to do with my future. Any advice at all, especially from those who were in a similar situation at one point, would be greatly appreciated. I know that was a long-winded rant, so thank you to anyone who took the time to read all that.

What about PA school? I have a friend who had similar stats and she's now in PA school. She did much better on the GRE (for PA), and got accepted to several PA programs, including Duke, which has a top program.

DO schools are also a possibility.

I think starting over in a totally different field would be unacceptable to your family.