ABSITE Blues

[SLUser11]

Once a year, we all jam a ridiculous amount of worthless facts into our head in the hopes that we'll score well on this stupid test. It's not like we're spending hours going over the intricacies of surgical decision-making, or stressing over how to manage common surgical disease. We know that already.

Instead, we memorize gut hormones, abx mech of action, RQs, most common this, least common that, etc. My head is currently full of hundreds of one-liners. I can only hope that the ABSITE doesn't ask me to actually elaborate on why the MIBG scan localizes Pheos, or how a Sulfur Colloid scan or Somatostatin Receptor Scintography works.....

In a lot of cases, I have to unlearn things so I won't overthink the questions, especially since the test seems to lag several years behind the literature. It also seems to purposefully ask questions where the correct answer is not listed, or maybe there's 2 correct answers.....

It would be different if I thought the test would avoid controversial subjects, but I know that they are definitely going to ask questions on subjects where you can make an equal argument for several answers. And, they're going to give you numbers in the grey zone, e.g. a 4 or 5 cm adrenal incidentaloma, and then ask you what to do. And, of course, there's no good solid reference. Each study guide has conflicting and outdated information.

To me, it feels like a yearly miniature Step 1 exam. Not as extensive or stressful, but to me, it's equally frustrating, and similar in worth. And still, here I am, begrudgingly jumping through the hoop again....

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[dpmd]

I'm sure its like this for other specialties. I know the the ortho in training exam has a bunch of regurgitate the answer questions. One nice thing is they get to keep the questions and find out which ones they got wrong, so instead of studying whatever list of questions you can find (with no certainty that the answers are even right) they can go over actual questions with the answer that is officially accepted as correct (again, lags behind current therapy or chooses between acceptable alternatives). I wish we had that.

 

[filter07]

I wouldn't say "we all". I think in my program only a few study for it, and far fewer make much effort to do well on it. And it shows.

 

[SLUser11]

I wouldn't say "we all". I think in my program only a few study for it, and far fewer make much effort to do well on it. And it shows.

I should modify my inclusive statement, then, and say that "many of us motivated residents...."

I don't know, maybe it's because I'm ultra-competitive, but then again most surgery residents are ultra-competitive, and Type A personalities....where I'm from, that translates into working hard to do well. Most of the people in my program study hard for the test.

And keep in mind, being in the midwest, several of my co-residents have plans to go directly into private practice without fellowship, where the ABSITE is the most irrelevant.

 

[ExtraCrispy]

I should modify my inclusive statement, then, and say that "many of us motivated residents...."

It's not a question of motivation. My program doesn't emphasize the ABSITE at all - and that includes the attendings. The primary reason is that our clinical volume is such that to spend days cramming is to neglect patient care. Our board scores don't suffer, and our faculty openly gauge our knowledge base and clinical acumen by our coherence and decision making when we call them about patients in the middle of the night. . . not by the percent of multiple choice questions correct on a scantron.

As you very aptly described in your first post, the ABSITE is a lot more about studying for the test itself - "winning the game" - than it is about strengthening your knowledge base and clinical skills. My colleagues and I would rather focus on the latter, and for the most part, our faculty agree.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

If I may say so, ExtraCrispy, your program doesn't much care about the Absite since it banks fellowship placement on its extraordinary name. Other programs might not have that luxury, even if they share the quite sensible educational philosophy you outlined.

Much like our medical school and the shelf exams.

 

[opr8n]

def feeln the absite blues right now
going back over ny old tests report sheets
and it seems that ive gotten the same stuff wrong year after year
hmmmmmmmmmm, i should prob fix that
one more week

 

[Blade28]

I hate the last Saturday of every January.

 

[SLUser11]

It's not a question of motivation. My program doesn't emphasize the ABSITE at all - and that includes the attendings. The primary reason is that our clinical volume is such that to spend days cramming is to neglect patient care. Our board scores don't suffer, and our faculty openly gauge our knowledge base and clinical acumen by our coherence and decision making when we call them about patients in the middle of the night. . . not by the percent of multiple choice questions correct on a scantron.

As you very aptly described in your first post, the ABSITE is a lot more about studying for the test itself - "winning the game" - than it is about strengthening your knowledge base and clinical skills. My colleagues and I would rather focus on the latter, and for the most part, our faculty agree.

While I agree that it is somewhat about studying for the test itself, it is a solid indicator of how you're going to do on the boards, and I believe there is some cutoff, 20-30th percentile or so, under which you have a very high chance of failing the boards.....something the PD may want to know if they're going to try and stop that from happening.

My impression after the interview process was that some places with typically crappy scores tend to downplay the ABSITE's importance instead of devising a plan to address their resident's knowledge deficiencies......

I found several academic programs, mostly in the midwest but not confined to that region, that didn't have a structured surgical curriculum (Sabiston Club, etc), and blamed the scores on having "lazy residents who don't read."

 

[SLUser11]

At this point, it's too late to change much.


Good luck tomorrow, everyone.

 

[ESU_MD]

FWIW, from someone who recently took the written and oral boards-

the absite is as close to the ABS written exam as you can get.

write down the questions from each absite you take as soon as you are done. and study the concepts. you will see them again.

disclaimer- reproducing and sharing the questions may be against ABS policy- but i dont believe there is a rule against using them for your own use.

good luck all

 

[deleted89854]

Sweet freedom! Suck it, ABSITE. I will now spend the rest of the day catching up on 24 and eating pie.

 

[SLUser11]

Sweet freedom! Suck it, ABSITE. I will now spend the rest of the day catching up on 24 and eating pie.

I utilize a different sort of catharsis.......it's alcohol related. I guess my "pie" is Coors Light.


Anyway, I know we can't talk about the specifics of the exam, but I will say I noticed a large difference in the content and format of the Senior (vs. Junior) exam, and I wish I'd spent less time with the basic science crap.....

Congrats everyone on being done with it.

 

[filter07]

joke of a test, a premed could have aced it

 

[Winged Scapula]

Best wishes....hope you all did well.

 

[SLUser11]

joke of a test, a premed could have aced it

You thought the senior exam was a joke?

 

[filter07]

I don't know anything about the Senior exam. I took the Junior exam...

 

[SLUser11]

I don't know anything about the Senior exam. I took the Junior exam...

Oh...for some reason, I thought you were a 3. I thought the junior exam was relatively easy both years, but I felt infinitely more intimidated by the senior exam this year. There were a lot more questions where the topic was debateable and 2 answers could be justified, or where the topic was something I never saw in any of my study material.

That being said, a lot of the one-liner, basic science questions from the junior exam are gimmies for most residents, which leads to a high mean, and a tight curve.

 

[ESU_MD]

alot of replies to this thread today- you should be out getting bombed at some bar!!!

 

[Winged Scapula]

alot of replies to this thread today- you should be out getting bombed at some bar!!!

Exactly. We should be the only ones here posting!

 

[njbmd]

Hope everyone survivied and will enjoy some good Super Bowl parties today and tonight!

 

[junior surg]

took the junior level today wahy on earth was a lot of questions on "nutrition and GI" unlike previous year i think this year sucked

 

[Blade28]

Having recovered from Saturday's festivities (and last night's as well!), I am happy to report that another ABSITE has come and gone...whew!

 

[opr8n]

i wish we could all openly discuss the absite, but it is not allowed
I have acouple q that I couldnt resolve an answer
all in all, it was very fair, some very easy, some more difficult, some like last years where only the person asking the question really knows the answer

anyway, 362 more days till the next one!

 

[Winged Scapula]

For those of you wishing to discuss the ABSITE, perhaps some PMs btwn users would suffice? The ABS cannot control that content.

 

[Blade28]

For my own personal purposes I spent a couple hours over the following Sunday and Monday writing down all the questions I could remember...ended up with around 180-190 of them. Maybe it'll help for next year?

 

[Winged Scapula]

For my own personal purposes I spent a couple hours over the following Sunday and Monday writing down all the questions I could remember...ended up with around 180-190 of them. Maybe it'll help for next year?

It does (they tend to repeat - some seemingly every year and others on a few year rotation basis).

BTW, same goes for written boards.

 

[dpmd]

For my own personal purposes I spent a couple hours over the following Sunday and Monday writing down all the questions I could remember...ended up with around 180-190 of them. Maybe it'll help for next year?

That's impressive. I could only remember about 15 or so, and most of them I don't remember all the answer choices given.

 

[Blade28]

That's impressive. I could only remember about 15 or so, and most of them I don't remember all the answer choices given.

I only tended to remember the answer choices for the questions where I mulled over during the test...most of my "notes" just involve the question stem and one or two answer choices.

I did this a couple years ago, also, but did it several days after the exam so had already purged most of the exam experience from my mind.

It does (they tend to repeat - some seemingly every year and others on a few year rotation basis).

BTW, same goes for written boards.

Good to know!

 

[junior surg]

I wrote 213 questions out of the 220 and for the content it differs from year to year as of last year much emphasis was on CVS this year was balanced content

 

[junior surg]

when to expect the report
last year we got around february 24 th any news?

 

[Thanatos]

Bump....

I'm memorizing gut hormones tonight....who's with me?

I just learned that Chagas disease can be transmitted through a blood transfusion. Interesting......which one is Chagas disease again?

****!

 

[dpmd]

I don't remember what Chagas disease is, but I do know the red cross wants to know if you have been exposed to it or babesiosis before you can donate blood.

I should study, but I probably won't tonight. Bad resident!

 

[Apollyon]

Bump....

I'm memorizing gut hormones tonight....who's with me?

I just learned that Chagas disease can be transmitted through a blood transfusion. Interesting......which one is Chagas disease again?

****!

Assassin/kissing bug (blood transmission). Cardiac tissue.

Carlos Chagas, just like Hans Selye, made a discovery as a med student. As Chagas said, "Everyone looked, but I was the only one who saw." <-- true quote.

 

[goooooober]

Assassin/kissing bug (blood transmission). Cardiac tissue.

Carlos Chagas, just like Hans Selye, made a discovery as a med student. As Chagas said, "Everyone looked, but I was the only one who saw." <-- true quote.

Good quote. I will use this one somewhere sometime. Soon.

 

[SLUser11]

Bump....

I'm memorizing gut hormones tonight....who's with me?

I just learned that Chagas disease can be transmitted through a blood transfusion. Interesting......which one is Chagas disease again?

****!

The senior exam is weighted heavily on more clinical questions, so I could spend a month memorizing gut hormones, etc, but it only makes up a small fraction of the test....which is probably better because it makes the ABSITE become similar to the actual QE. Of course, I'll still cram all that minutia into my head the week before the test.....and it'll be gone by the following Monday.

I haven't studied much yet this year, but I'm planning on skimming through SESAP 13....I'm well aware that it may create more questions than answers, and it's probably purposefully more tricky than the ABSITE, but I figure the same group of surgical minds involved in writing the ABSITE are likely involved in SESAP. Any thoughts from others with senior exam experience?

Of course, I'm going to go through Fiser's The ABSITE Review again, which is truly the shortest route to a good score, and I recommend it to anyone who hasn't used it before.

 

[maverick_pkg]

The senior exam is weighted heavily on more clinical questions, so I could spend a month memorizing gut hormones, etc, but it only makes up a small fraction of the test....which is probably better because it makes the ABSITE become similar to the actual QE. Of course, I'll still cram all that minutia into my head the week before the test.....and it'll be gone by the following Monday.

I haven't studied much yet this year, but I'm planning on skimming through SESAP 13....I'm well aware that it may create more questions than answers, and it's probably purposefully more tricky than the ABSITE, but I figure the same group of surgical minds involved in writing the ABSITE are likely involved in SESAP. Any thoughts from others with senior exam experience?

Of course, I'm going to go through Fiser's The ABSITE Review again, which is truly the shortest route to a good score, and I recommend it to anyone who hasn't used it before.

hey in your opinion, how different was the senior absite you took last year to the junior absite the year before that. does it have the stuff in the initial chapters of fiser? or are only the latter chapters important?

 

[SLUser11]

I utilize a different sort of catharsis.......it's alcohol related. I guess my "pie" is Coors Light.


Anyway, I know we can't talk about the specifics of the exam, but I will say I noticed a large difference in the content and format of the Senior (vs. Junior) exam, and I wish I'd spent less time with the basic science crap.....

Congrats everyone on being done with it.

hey in your opinion, how different was the senior absite you took last year to the junior absite the year before that. does it have the stuff in the initial chapters of fiser? or are only the latter chapters important?

I sort of alluded to it in my quoted post from a year ago, but the basic science content is very light on the senior exam....I think it's 20% basic science and 80% clinical. This is overall a good thing, but it makes it harder to just memorize some crap a few days before the test and then forget it immediately on Sunday.

I think the best way to do well on the senior exam is to read consistently throughout the year, and have common sense, methodical approach to surgical decision making....a lot of the questions have 2 or 3 acceptable answers, and you have to decide which one is the best course of action, so it's sort of open to debate.

Of course, it only takes a little while to memorize those first few chapters of Fiser, and maybe that 20% basic science is what separates the average from the excellent scores on the senior exam.....get those GI hormones committed to memory, and it's easy points.

 

[goooooober]

I just want to say that I not only hate the ABSITE, I hate the person who created the ABSITE and their mother.

 

[maverick_pkg]

I sort of alluded to it in my quoted post from a year ago, but the basic science content is very light on the senior exam....I think it's 20% basic science and 80% clinical. This is overall a good thing, but it makes it harder to just memorize some crap a few days before the test and then forget it immediately on Sunday.

I think the best way to do well on the senior exam is to read consistently throughout the year, and have common sense, methodical approach to surgical decision making....a lot of the questions have 2 or 3 acceptable answers, and you have to decide which one is the best course of action, so it's sort of open to debate.

Of course, it only takes a little while to memorize those first few chapters of Fiser, and maybe that 20% basic science is what separates the average from the excellent scores on the senior exam.....get those GI hormones committed to memory, and it's easy points.

thanks

 

[SLUser11]

I just want to say that I not only hate the ABSITE, I hate the person who created the ABSITE and their mother.

I believe you are referring to Dr. John Absite. His mother, Dorothea Virginia Absite, was a wonderful woman and I am extremely offended that you would bring her into this.





Anyway, for those of us taking the senior exam, I burned through SESAP 13 over the last 2-3 days, and overall I thought it was helpful. Volume I definitely seemed better than volume II. Also, there were a lot of things I just chose to ignore that I didn't think was consistent with the "ABSITE answer."

So, my formula for this year is Fiser plus SESAP plus the Fiser Question book. Other previous study aids, such as the Johns Hopkins crappy Q book, and Michigan State Review, didn't get any action this year. I also am spending less time memorizing basic science stuff since it really is a minority of the senior exam.

 

[papajohns]

A lot of recent posts mention the level of basic science on the senior absite with level on the junior exam being presumably much higher. The question is, how much higher?? Should I focus on the first chapters in fiser and skim the rest? Could an intern do well (or get a somewhat respectable score) skimming fiser alone? I procrastinated as always and am trying to effectively focus my efforts in the last week, but finding it frustratingly difficult with no true 'junior absite' study materials. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[opr8n]

A lot of recent posts mention the level of basic science on the senior absite with level on the junior exam being presumably much higher. The question is, how much higher?? Should I focus on the first chapters in fiser and skim the rest? Could an intern do well (or get a somewhat respectable score) skimming fiser alone? I procrastinated as always and am trying to effectively focus my efforts in the last week, but finding it frustratingly difficult with no true 'junior absite' study materials. Thanks in advance for your help.

every chapter of fiser has some basic science at the begining and mixed in each section, so i wouldnt blow off the clinical chapters as they have alot of basic science in them, just when you read them concentrate less on clinical management of diseases but more more on presenting factors, how things work, why they work, what they are associated with. Know critical care well, it always tends to be hit hard on the junior exam, especially PA cath interpretation q's

 

[opr8n]

i wish we could all openly discuss the absite, but it is not allowed
I have acouple q that I couldnt resolve an answer
all in all, it was very fair, some very easy, some more difficult, some like last years where only the person asking the question really knows the answer

anyway, 362 more days till the next one!

umm 4 days, time went fast

 

[dpmd]

I keep on hearing about how scores tend to drop as people go from taking the junior test to taking the senior. Any thoughts on why? Is it that they don't know enough clinical stuff, or is it that they decide not to study any of the basic science and it comes to bite them in the ass.

I did poorly my intern year, then subsequently improved the next year since I got some of those secret study materials that somehow get passed around. My response to my PD the first year was that I was going to do even better once I started taking the senior exam since I do better with clinical stuff. Now I am beginning to wonder if I have set myself up to disappoint.

Who dropped their score on the senior exam, and why do you think you did (or your "friend" if that makes you more comfortable)

 

[Winged Scapula]

I keep on hearing about how scores tend to drop as people go from taking the junior test to taking the senior. Any thoughts on why? Is it that they don't know enough clinical stuff, or is it that they decide not to study any of the basic science and it comes to bite them in the ass.

I did poorly my intern year, then subsequently improved the next year since I got some of those secret study materials that somehow get passed around. My response to my PD the first year was that I was going to do even better once I started taking the senior exam since I do better with clinical stuff. Now I am beginning to wonder if I have set myself up to disappoint.

Who dropped their score on the senior exam, and why do you think you did (or your "friend" if that makes you more comfortable)

The conventional wisdom has it that the reason you do better early on is that your scores are compared to the entire pool of test takers: so you are being compared to Prelims moving on to Advanced positions who may not care what they score and others who are potentially dropping out of surgery (not all Prelims take the ABSITE but many programs do). By the time you get to the senior exam, pretty much everyone is going to complete general surgery and works hard to score decently.

 

[deegs]

The conventional wisdom has it that the reason you do better early on is that your scores are compared to the entire pool of test takers: so you are being compared to Prelims moving on to Advanced positions who may not care what they score and others who are potentially dropping out of surgery (not all Prelims take the ABSITE but many programs do). By the time you get to the senior exam, pretty much everyone is going to complete general surgery and works hard to score decently.

I'll be an n=1 for that statement above. As a urology preselect, nobody on the Gen Surg service or the Urology service really cares if I score in the 95% or the 5% on Saturday. So while I have been leafing through the Fiser book in the last week, I am making no significant effort to prepare for the exam. We even joke among the interns that our job as urology and ENT preselects is to bring down the curve so that our Gen Surg colleges can score well....

 

[SLUser11]

Good luck tomorrow!

Remember that we can't discuss the test questions on here, as it's gotten SDN in trouble in the past.

Also, apparently some programs are trying out the online ABSITE prototype, so not everyone is taking the test tomorrow.

Either way, it's important to approach this test with a linear thought process....unlike the tests we took during the first 2 years of med school, these questions aren't meant to trick you. A lot of the answers will be straight-forward.

 

[MediCane2006]

Best of luck to everybody! And to those, like me, who are still frantically trying to memorize staging for head-and-neck cancer, or gut hormones, you're not alone....

Can't wait to be drinking the ABSITE blues away tomorrow!

 

[Winged Scapula]

tomorrow!

As SLUser notes, please do not post questions or even topics from the exam here.

The ABS is very serious about protecting their product, and we may not be able to protect your privacy if supoenaed by them.