ABS Certifying Exam, aka Oral Boards

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Beta blocker
Lomotil
No gas producing foods the night before
Candy in your pocket (if your mouth tends to get dry); suck on it BETWEEN rooms (not while in one :laugh:). Some have resorted to hiding a bottle of water in the hallway between rooms.

You'll be fine. Longest 90 minutes of your life. That and the wait until Thursday when results are posted.

I actually thought it was the fastest 90 minutes of my life, sandwiched between the slowest lead up (sitting in a hotel conference room, getting your information and instructions) and ramp down (waiting for results). I left feeling confident, then slowly turned into a miserable ball of despair over the course of waiting for results.

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I actually thought it was the fastest 90 minutes of my life, sandwiched between the slowest lead up (sitting in a hotel conference room, getting your information and instructions) and ramp down (waiting for results). I left feeling confident, then slowly turned into a miserable ball of despair over the course of waiting for results.

oops...you're right.

I meant FASTEST 90 minutes! Thanks for catching that.
 
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Attire for the exam is a suit, correct? If you get hot, I presume you are just supposed to suck it up.

Definitely conservative suit. Just like for interviewing. Gray, black or navy.
 
If you're going to try a beta-blocker, make sure you do it before the exam. I know a girl who had a near-disaster at an exam who hadn't tried it before. Whoops.
:laugh: I heard a very similar story, except there was no "near." It was a disaster, according to the questioning her.
 
I finally took the exam this Tuesday and found out I passed today. I was supposed to take it in March but I pulled out last minute given i didn't feel ready. I had just had a baby and I don't know what I was thinking that I could study with a newborn.

The exam was very fair. Every question I was asked was relevant to the practice of general surgery. The examiners were pleasant and professional.

I did go to the Odyssey course in 2/2012 as I thought I was going to take the March exam (or april whatever it was). In retrospect a big fat waste of money. Every question I was asked was answerable via my experience as a resident and the time I put into studying on my own. I never *once* looked at my notes from the course to prepare for the exam. Honestly, I think all of these courses make a fortune off the paranoia amongst all taking the exam.

I used Marc Neff's book- very good book to use for general outline. I supplemented with texts- Cameron, Corman's, MD anderson, etc... I prepared over the past six weeks and was pretty diligent about reading and thinking about what I read.

By the way, I did not walk out of that exam feeling good despite my thoughts on how fair the exam was. I was so worried- I wasn't linear at times, I backtracked and said I would have done something different given the situation I was presented with, etc... It is a hard exam- you have to cover an immense amount of information some of which you may not have had experience with. Also, it is very artificial in a way- sitting in a room across from two examiners asking you random questions. Anyhow, the exam is very doable. Be confident but not cocky and read, read and read to prepare!
 
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I also took the exam in Philadelphia this past week, and like daisygirl I was very concerned that I didn't pass; thankfully, I'm now breathing a sigh of relief! The topics were all very reasonable and all things that I knew, but sometimes the examiners presented questions in a vague way. It wasn't always obvious to me where the examiner was going with a given scenario.

When I was a 5th year resident, I read Cameron cover to cover and took notes on the main topics, and these notes were my main study guide for both the written and the oral boards. For the written, I also used SESAP, which was enormously helpful; some of the exam questions closely approximated questions in this bank.

For the orals, I studied for about three weeks. I had Neff, Snyder, and the 2007 edition of Safe Answers, but to be honest I didn't like any of them. Neff is too basic, and Snyder is poorly written and overly simplistic. Safe Answers would be the best and most comprehensive, but as others have mentioned, the answers are outdated by at least a decade! Ultimately, I used Safe Answers just to give me a framework for the topics I needed to cover, and then looked up the current management in my Cameron notes or in another classic textbook. The day before the exam, I also reviewed the notes I'd taken from SESAP, to ensure I was attending to concepts & facts the ABS found relevant.

The best advice I can give for preparation, is to think about what you would honestly do in your own practice. If you find when thinking about a scenario that you're not quite sure what the best move would be, then read more to create a clear algorithm in your head for each potential problem. The ABS said they're acknowledging the changing practice of surgery, and so are focusing on the operations and competencies of the SCORE curriculum now. The exam reflected this -- they truly wanted to know, for each scenario, what I would do. And none of the scenarios were outside the realm of possibility for a general surgeon to handle. They're interested in your clinical judgment and your ability to make safe decisions.

Best of luck!
 
I also found out I passed today and what a relief!!!! I felt very prepared Did all my own studying. I did not do a review course and am glad I did not. I think it would have been a waste of time. Especially the last weekend when I really figured out my algorithms for certain problems. I second ANd third the last two posters who stated that the exam was very fair and relevant to general surgery. My scenarios got complex very quickly and like 10-15 curveballs per case. They push you very hard to see how confident you are. Asking you multiple times how sure you are that you "want to do what??". I wouldn't mind doing this again but only from the other side of the room ;)
 
Agreed! They test multiple things with a single scenario. When it's clear you're comfortable with one issue, they throw in another to see how you react. And then another. And it keeps getting more complicated until they get bored. :)
 
I finally took the exam this Tuesday and found out I passed today. I was supposed to take it in March but I pulled out last minute given i didn't feel ready. I had just had a baby and I don't know what I was thinking that I could study with a newborn.

Congrats to everyone who passed.

So daisygirl, what happened after this post from 2004? :laugh:
 
Congrats to everyone who passed.

So daisygirl, what happened after this post from 2004? :laugh:

weird you found that. i forgot i even posted that.

when i was a med student, the female residents were a real nasty bunch. in the end i liked surgery even though i didn't particularly like the experience with the residents...
 
weird you found that. i forgot i even posted that.

when i was a med student, the female residents were a real nasty bunch. in the end i liked surgery even though i didn't particularly like the experience with the residents...

The thread from which it came has been fairly active over the last few weeks. I had not read it the entire way through but someone happened to quote your original post yesterday, which is how I found the little gem.

If you have time, you might wish to go back and update your experience for the students. think it's valuable for them to realize that their experience is not always an accurate depiction of the entire field. I had the opposite experience during medical school with wonderful and supportive residents and faculty and didn't realize it wasn't that way everywhere. LOL.
 
Thanks for the great input. I am scheduled for New Orleans in January and starting to feel the crunch. My program was not didactically heavy and a lot of what i have learned has come from my own studying. I too am using Neff and Snyder, and will give in to my paranoia and will attend Osler. I hope its worth it.
I appreciate all the feedback on this thread
 
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Took my oral exam recently:

Opening remarks by Frank Lewis, Executive Director, ABS

Don’t ask for any additional data
All the data will be given to you
Do not stall the examiner
Don’t dwell on H&P, we don’t need to examine you history taking skills, we need to know that you can manage pts safely.
75% of scenarios are frequently done procedures and common problems we encounter.
3 rooms, 2 examiners in each room, 4 scenarios in each room, 7 min each, 30 min in each room, a total of 12 scenarios.
Must pass at least 2 rooms to get an overall pass.

I did not take any courses, listened to SESAP during my residency, used Neff and How to win before the exam. Felt well prepared for the exam. Overall the examination process seemed to be fair. Some examiners are ball busters and they push you to the edge, got to keep your cool. Felt confident after the exam and surely I did pass. Such a relief. Happy to answer any specific questions.

Good luck to everyone.
 
Well, I passed the CE, and I'm now board certified. I feel good about it, but it's sort of anti-climactic. I can't go into the specifics of the test, but I can say that the scenarios were all very reasonable, and the examiners were not aggressive or argumentative.

To summarize my preparation, I started studying about 5-6 weeks before the test. I went through How to Win, and I've been open about my distaste for the book. I then went through Neff's book, which I had already highlighted for my mock orals.

I decided to not use Safe Answers (2003), but at the Osler course I saw that a new edition (2011) exists, so that may have been a good option. I also ended up skipping "91 scenarios" because I just didn't think it was helpful. I did not practice any mock scenarios out loud, but I had mock orals PGY3-5 as a resident, which was definitely helpful.

I took 2 weeks off without studying (end of February) because I had some other projects to do (lecture for work, and poster for meeting). After that, I studied some of my "old material" which wasn't great because the answers seemed wrong a lot. I went through specific topics in Cameron's, and used UpToDate to review current chemo regimens and confirm which stages get what (neoadjuv vs. adjuv, +-XRT).

I took the Osler course the weekend before the test, and I'm not sure that it was necessary. It took away from me the last few days before the test that I could use to prepare, and most of the course was spent listening to other people struggle. It's utility is in making sure you've been exposed to all the common scenarios, and making you feel better about yourself once compared to the other examinees.

I think a reasonable approach is to get the knowledge-based stuff out of the way in advance, then use Neff's book or the new Safe Answers to study, with Cameron's and UpToDate as backups. I think old material is useful but not mandatory. I think the Osler course is good if you want to practice the tennis match between you and the examiner.

I used this post as well as some of the others in this thread before taking my exam today. Obviously I don't know if I passed and I already looked up some stuff and know I gave some inaccurate (but hopefully not failingly bad) answers. However, there where also some questions where I was more confident of my answers. My training thus far is part of that but I also read Schwartz (probably should have done so during residency, instead of just doing individual chapters prn but it wasn't necessarily that helpful), perused what I could for free of how to win (easy to read and not that pricey, but they can't put out a new edition with the spelling mistakes edited out at least-also thought his answer style seemed arrogant, but was nice to see a way the conversation could go and just dial down the arrogance), and found 2006 Neff's book on Scribd which is probably cheating like using napster used to be but I'm just not a good enough person to turn down the savings (helpful but with some old info, better to have some baseline knowledge so you know what needs updating, or just check everything out first if you have enough time-wish I had it during residency and had been updating things as I went along, but it worked out). I had 91 scenarios passed down to me via email (a little outdated on some stuff, but had some helpful stuff), and found a couple of other reviews on scribd -108 pages of handouts from 2010 Osler course, and a 21 page 2005 U Michigan review (the short one was great for a last little review, the Osler one had some good stuff too but wasn't complete-might be worth buying the complete current version)

Didn't do a course, but had mock orals during residency. Was going to have a few people do some one on one sessions closer to the test but timing only worked out for one guy to do it with me. He purposefully led me down a topic he figured I wouldn't know well so I could experience the feeling of having no idea what to do next (our mock orals wouldn't press a topic too hard if the person wasn't answering well, I don't remember for sure, but never had the same feeling I got in this session). He then advised me to figure out a way to deal with that feeling, form some kind of response, and not let it haunt you for the next question/room. I think that was hugely helpful and I took the advice to heart so I didn't think about any of my scenarios until after I was totally done and looking stuff up to see if I was close to the right answer on some stuff. Will share tomorrow if I passed or not (is it bad luck to think you did pass? I always hear of people feeling like they failed, but I think I gave a lot of correct answers and stayed safe when I didn't know-and turned out being wrong about certain parts of scenarios).
 
Passed, so I guess my prep was good. Thanks again SLUser, for starting this thread that helped me with my game plan.

Congrats! Board certified and ready to do some damage....
 
I used this thread to help me prep for orals several weeks ago, so I just wanted to add my two cents since it was a helpful reference base.

I thought the exam was surprisingly fair. All but one scenario was based off cases I had experienced during residency. The examiners acted in a cordial manner and weren't condescending or malicious. Except for that one scenario, it was material I felt like I should have known.

While we got the pre-exam spiel that we shouldn't concentrate on asking for H&P material, on a couple of scenarios I had it was essential that I asked for details. I think you have to develop targeted H&Ps toward different presentations, and I wouldn't shy on probing if it's pertinent. It doesn't have to be a complete H&P, but you need to know family history if you're doing an endocrine or oncology workup, smoking history for vascular patients, etc. On a couple of scenarios, though, the examiners would blaze through H&P, workup, and stick you in the OR- in that case, don't be a dork and ask for smoking history and a 12 point review of systems.

I was asked how to specifically do some procedures- these varied from routine to complex. For a complex case, I got the impression they wanted the main steps you'd find bolded in an operative manual rather than the details given in the paragraphs.

During residency, I read most of Greenfield's as an R1-2, and Cameron's as an R3-5 with Mastery of Surgery for complex cases. I also liked asking my attendings questions during slow periods. Getting an answer from a pro in a calm setting on aortic graft infections or breast cancer during pregnancy was more reassuring than trying to Google or UpToDate it.

For books, there aren't any great ones. How to Win actually covered more of the scenarios I had than Neff's book did. How to Win, though, does have abysmal typos and questionable clinical management. Neff's book does a good job listing 'curveballs' for each scenario (if you can hit pitches over the middle, the examiners *will* start throwing curves). Neff's book, however, doesn't give answers for the curveballs, and due to the difficulty of the questions, it can be very hard to find the answers on your own. I saw a copy of Safe Answers from 2011, and it was garbage. The newest edition did seem better when I browsed it (the author recently did his recertification). The books are best at just listing a bunch of different scenarios you'll encounter. You need to fill in the details yourself. *The online NCCN guidelines are the bomb for oncology algorithms.*

I took the Osler course and found it helpful. I've been in practice for a few months, so I wasn't used to being interrogated on every aspect of a patient's case. Osler also covered most of the curveballs and scenarios I encountered. The format does get tedious and relies on the examiner and examinee. Most of the examiners were decent, but one was lousy, i.e. people left the room. Sometimes, an examinee would start answering the question wrong and never recover, thus impairing the instruction, but overall I thought most people knew or had a good grasp of what they were doing.

I met someone who took Odyssey, and she had a highly unfavorable review of the course.

We had mock orals during residency. It helped me deal with the format, but in terms of content I wouldn't worry about it. I failed my last mock oral, but as vascular chief I wasn't going to spend any time brushing up on endocrine disorders while obeying an '80 hour' work week. If you didn't get mock orals during residency, Osler may be even more beneficial.

I studied for 6 weeks, which means 2 weeks of lukewarm browsing followed a by a month of holy-crap-I-need-to-really-know-this. I didn't have anyone to practice with, so a couple of weeks prior to the exam I started practicing out loud with questions from scenarios. Simply trying to speak my answers aloud was extremely helpful. If I couldn't convincingly say the answer, I probably didn't know the material well enough. Even if my brain knew the answer, my voice couldn't always process it in an eloquent fashion. While taking the Osler course, I did find an old classmate to practice with aloud.

If you can stomach it, it's probably best to take the orals in October while you still have the momentum and extra knowledge from the written in your memory banks. I felt like I had to relearn some material that I have already permanently jettisoned from my head.

In short, study as many scenarios as you can, do your own research to answer them, and practice aloud.
 
HIGHLY agree with the above. Practicing out loud is by far the most useful thing you can do for oral boards. If you have colleagues at your level to practice with, do it. If you have more senior attendings available, have them quiz the crap out of you (and try to do several cases through back to back without pausing to discuss options, so it is a little more realistic). Review breast options with a breast surgeon, trauma with your local trauma people, etc. if that is available to you (I found that calling old residency colleagues a few years ahead of me and going through scenarios over the phone was super useful). When you read alone, find practice scenarios and answer them OUT LOUD to yourself. As 46&2 said knowing the answer in your head and speaking it out loud in full sentences without stumbling are entirely different things. I did not take the review course so I spent evenings the last week wandering around my house talking to myself while my cat looked at me like I was crazy, and I think it helped.

I agree that most of the books are minimally useful as well. Practice scenarios are the most important, and I would look up my own answers from Cameron, Trauma, the MD Anderson Onc handbook, online, and honestly even the ABSITE book (lots of high-yield points in one place). The NCCN cancer flowcharts are useful (ignore the crazy detailed explanations), and the AJCC has some cancer staging flashcards good for quick review: ( https://cancerstaging.org/references-tools/quickreferences/Pages/default.aspx ). For reviewing steps of cases I hadn't done that often I actually found Khatri's Operative Surgery Manual to be easier than Mastery - it's short, to the point, and hits all the major case steps you need to know (faster read than Mastery). I had to describe 3-4 procedures, again varying in complexity, but all things I had done several to several dozen times in residency. ATOM and ASSET are also super helpful if you have been fortunate enough to take the courses.

The test is fair. Every scenario was something I had seen in residency or heard plenty about again except for one (wonder if it was the same one?), which I was still able to muddle through fairly logically since I knew the underlying disease process. When there are multiple options within a case, EXPLAIN to the examiners why you are recommending a particular path to the patient. Involve the patients \ families in the discussion of options, risks, benefits, alternatives, etc. Operating is not always the right answer. Get an appropriate limited H&P, labs, etc without wasting time on details that won't change your course. Remember your ATLS. The examiners were entirely fair, some easier to read than others but none completely stone faced or harsh. Though it's an experience I certainly wouldn't want to do again I came out of it feeling good.

Finally - take the day before OFF, and the morning of if you have an afternoon test. Do whatever it is you do that recharges your brain - sleep, run, be with your family. Going into the room calm, collected and able to THINK is more helpful than a little extra cramming. It is an entirely surreal experience.
 
Hi,

I'm taking the Oral Boards on March12th here in Houston, and I was hoping for some insight from the senior SDNers. I will say in advance that I am not taking a review course, primarily because I don't have any room on the credit card. I welcome any advice on test preparation, and I thank you in advance.

Does anyone have advice to share? Is anyone else taking the exam soon? Has anyone used Snyder's book?

Thanks,

SLUser, board-eligible SDNer

Well here was my regimen. I passed my orals and took them this past november in philly. I only include my prep for written boards as well as I believe it helped in my oral prepartion some ...

Written
1. The Pass Machine Online Lectures
- their question bank was terrible but lectures were a good refresher on basics
2. Surgery Test Weapon Question Bank (1,000 questions)
- nice feature was redoing the questions you got incorrect which I did 2-3 times
3. Sesap
- most recent version I believe about 2 weeks prior to test, 1-2 times

Orals
1. Safe Answers most recent version
- good review of all general topics covered on the orals
2. Passing the General Surgery Boards (Neff)
- good only for history and physical on certain topics, I didn't pay attention to the curveballs, etc. sections
3. Family member who is general surgeon/surg onc who did mock orals most nights for 2-3 weeks
- I was very lucky with this, but anyone can do this with fellow residents or as below with staff from their programs
4. Three different staff do 1 hour mock oral sessions with me to cover trauma/icu that the above could not cover .
5. General Surgery Operative technique book
- so I could describe surgeries in a concise 5-7 bullet point fashion touching on key steps of the surgery

I felt that both tests were fair as well as fascile (I only say that since I studied harder for these tests than any previous in my life). As mentioned in prior posts, practicing out loud with someone is key to not fumbling around when you are in the room.

Just remember orals are to test if you are a SAFE surgeon and not necessarily your knowledge base. The scenarios are designed to give you complications regardless of if you are answering with a correct algorithm for a disease process. It's how you manage the complications that dictate if you are "safe" and thus pass the test.
 
I'm looking ahead to the CE. A few people mentioned that October is the way to go. Anyone think that is too early? I would have to start preparing now, and at some point I'd like to catch up on reading for fellowship. Also, is the test all in 1 day? Because on the ABS website, 3 days are listed per city.

For others starting to think about the CE, there is a book for the oral boards which I think is excellent:
Clinical Scenarios in Surgery by Justin Dimick

I've used it for mock orals and it is infinitely better written than the competition.
 
I'm looking ahead to the CE. A few people mentioned that October is the way to go. Anyone think that is too early? I would have to start preparing now, and at some point I'd like to catch up on reading for fellowship. Also, is the test all in 1 day? Because on the ABS website, 3 days are listed per city.

For others starting to think about the CE, there is a book for the oral boards which I think is excellent:
Clinical Scenarios in Surgery by Justin Dimick

I've used it for mock orals and it is infinitely better written than the competition.

I think it's best to take the CE right away if you're new in practice, and not busy yet, as you'll have time to study, etc.

But, for someone in a new fellowship, I think taking it in the spring is best. You'll simply have too many competing interests this fall (learning new surgeries/techniques, studying specialty-specific things, proving yourself to new bosses, finishing projects prior to abstract deadlines, looking into jobs, etc).

I'm glad this thread is staying alive. I think it will continue to be helpful moving forward. As for resources, there is no great, universal resource for the CE, but there are plenty of OK resources. I haven't heard of the one you mentioned, but I'll look into it since I now have to run the mock orals every year for our residents.
 
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I took the CE in October and it worked well for me because my QE studying was still fresh and it was easier for me to maintain a study schedule with a small break after the QE rather than taking a huge break and having a hard time buckling down to study again after putting it aside for work/life obligations.

The CE is given over a three day period. Each examinee is assigned to a half day within that three day block. ABS sends you an exam confirmation and tells you which half day you are assigned well ahead of time so you can make travel arrangements. You only need to be there for a few hours out of the three day window, not the whole 3 days.
 
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As others have noted, it really depends on you and your situation. I personally found waiting until the spring better for me.

We started using Dimick's book when it came out for our mock orals; I agree that it's one of the better resources out there and is presented in a very approachable fashion. The residents here really like it; @SLUser you may wish to check it out.

I also like Mattox's Top Knife (is that also the name of a reality show?). While not designed for board review at all, for residents in a program without a lot of penetrating/operative trauma, I found it nice to have a "how I do this" guide which is well written and can be easily read in a day.
 
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As others have noted, it really depends on you and your situation. I personally found waiting until the spring better for me.

We started using Dimick's book when it came out for our mock orals; I agree that it's one of the better resources out there and is presented in a very approachable fashion. The residents here really like it; @SLUser you may wish to check it out.

I also like Mattox's Top Knife (is that also the name of a reality show?). While not designed for board review at all, for residents in a program without a lot of penetrating/operative trauma, I found it nice to have a "how I do this" guide which is well written and can be easily read in a day.
I like top knife and considered it good to read before my trauma rotation because we do have operative trauma and this way I felt more prepared to do stuff (particularly on night float when I did my first cric and ed thoracotomy as the most senior surgeon in house until staff could get there).
 
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BUMP

Anything new to add? "Looking forward" to taking the CE soon...
 
I took oral boards today. I really don't know what to say other than it was the fastest and weirdest 90 minutes ever. I felt as though I could have done better in all my rooms. Strange test for sure.
 
Just finished the oral boards last night - obviously don't know results yet. I agree with jkranker, very weird experience. It was very hard to get a read on what they were going for in some cases. Even looking back and thinking about it I'm not sure if I completely nailed some of the questions or missed the boat entirely. I know I wasn't perfect, but I didn't do anything unsafe. I also know that even if I gave the right answers, I wasn't always eloquent - don't know how much that plays a role in scoring. Honestly I think it's 50/50 if I passed or not.

I used the Dimick book, which I found to be very helpful, and supplemented it with Greenfield and Cameron. If I failed it was due to poor performance and articulation of answers, not inadequate reading/prep.
 
My thoughts on CE: I really do think this is a test you have to prepare for over 5 years, I think its just way too hard to really cram for it or even to study for it. I ended up not taking any course though I had planned to take Osler, I just ****ed up scheduling and so wasn't able to logistically manage it. In hindsight I think that was a mistake if for no other reason than from speaking to people I think it gives some peace of mind and some confidence, two things I was sorely lacking. I am in an extremely busy fellowship and felt extremely underprepared for this exam. I essentially started studying Friday night, sequestered myself in hotel Saturday/Sunday, and took exam Monday. I would NOT recommend this strategy, I've been wanting to throw up constantly since Monday evening.

Agree that its a weird experience. Flew by. I feel its an extremely fair test, and the whole "they arent trying to trick you" thing is very true. They are straightforward scenarios and they are just pushing you to see how your brain works. I feel that one or two of my examiners did a few things to try to stress me out a little (namely one of them kept being irritated and disagreeing with my plan to sit tight for a couple days in one scenario and kept saying "its 12 hours later are you gonna go to OR now? Ok its 12 hours later how about now?"). But I dont feel like any of them were malicious.

I used Clinical Scenarios in Surgery as a basic review and I used the newer edition of the Neff book as a rapid way to crystallize and formalize my mindset on all the scenarios. I strongly recommend the Neff book as a "last couple days before the test" review, but as for general studying I think it begins early in training and I dont know how you can really make up for it unless you take a few months off to prepare or something.

Once you are done, just be done. Go drink a beer, go hug your wife, go watch TV, just forget about it. Every single night since Monday I've woken up realizing some new stupid thing I said that in hindsight was completely wrong, or something I totally missed in that second room, etc., but this is not a helpful or useful thing to do. It just makes you sick. Fire and forget.

Results came out this afternoon and I must have gotten at least one point above the minimum passing score, so I'll take it.
 
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It was very hard to get a read on what they were going for in some cases. Even looking back and thinking about it I'm not sure if I completely nailed some of the questions or missed the boat entirely.

That's intentional. They are not giving you positive or negative feedback...they want you to decide what you would do...not read/interpret their desired path.
 
sounds fun!..........in need of a study partner! pm me!
 
Took my oral boards in January in Dallas. It was pretty much what I was expecting in terms of cases. Just about everything I did had a complication requiring specific management. The examiners were overall friendly but a bit stone-faced at times. Heard "are you sure you want to do that?" more times than I would've liked to. My exam was on a Monday - walking out of there, I was certain I had passed. As the week dragged on, I became increasingly certain in the idea that I had failed, constantly reminding myself of things I may have missed or should have asked/done differently. As it turned out, I passed and couldn't be happier. I took the Osler course which was extremely helpful - it got me time off from fellowship and allowed me to get in the appropriate mindset. I spent a lot of time reading Cameron as well, which I think is the best resource for the orals. I started the Neff book but thought it was a complete waste of time so I didn't bother with it after about a week or so. Good luck and let me know if you have any questions.
 
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Took mine 2 days ago in St. Louis. Thought I bombed it (not a unique feeling by any means). Found out I passed today. I thought I failed it not because of the difficulty of the questions but because I thought I didn't handle myself well. Thank God for small mercies. It was a fair exam as far as the questions went. Not one of the scenarios was weird or out there. Put it this way, if it was a written exam, you'd get at minimum 10 out of the 12 questions right without breaking a sweat. It's the format of the exam and the weight of what pass vs fail means that adds the difficulty to it.

In terms of preparation, I second the Cameron remark. It was the best book to read for boards. Yes, its daunting to suggest that you read a textbook (and I didn't finish every chapter but got through 90% of it), but trust me, it makes everything else that you would use to study for this slot properly into what they are meant to be in the first place, i.e, review books, emphasis on the word review.

Other things that helped, Clinical Scenarios In Surgery: Decision Making and Operative Technique by Dimick. Would rate as my #2 resource.

I did the Osler course, and it helped as well, but it does have weaknesses (not all faculty were strong, peds was not covered). It is helpful in the sense of getting the feel of being asked questions in an oral format. The younger instructors who had just recently taken the course were good.

I had a copy of the Neff book, but didn't actually look at it until the morning of my exam, when I found out I was in a later group. Went back to my hotel room and read for about 2 hours. If you've done Cameron and Dimick, it was basically just skimming to keep busy. I honestly think trying to study from these books that just throw facts at you is not the way to go. Do Cameron's. Your best bet.

Hope that helps.
 
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The only oral board advice I 100% absolutely believe in: take it as early as you possibly can. That goes double for anyone going into a fellowship that does minimal gensurg
 
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anyone having trouble with the ABS website? trying to pay for it and it won't load.
 
The only oral board advice I 100% absolutely believe in: take it as early as you possibly can. That goes double for anyone going into a fellowship that does minimal gensurg

I am taking this advice. Planning for Sept. Fellowship is very unforgiving regarding time off. I can't see letting this hang over my head all year until the spring
 
Passed in New Orleans last week. I agree that the exam was very fair. Only 2 of the 12 scenarios really threw me off at first, but got back on track once I asked more questions to move the scenario along.

I did take the Olser course, which I found useful, especially since I wasn't able to take the exam until my second year in fellowship. In the weeks leading up to the exam, I mostly reviewed my notes from Cameron's and the Neff book. I also read Safe Answers, but didn't find it as helpful. I also reviewed the Atlas of General Surgery Techniques to help me describe each operation succinctly by its key steps.

Definitely the fastest 90 minutes of my life. Glad it's over.
 
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Anyone considering doing the 2 year re-cert open book stuff? I have like 8 years left to go for GS re-cert, do I have to do the open book tests now or in 8 years?
 
Anyone considering doing the 2 year re-cert open book stuff? I have like 8 years left to go for GS re-cert, do I have to do the open book tests now or in 8 years?
I plan to look into the details more. Kinda wonder if they are going to charge a bunch of money each time to take the test.
 
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Okay all, here’s my updated thoughts on passing the ABS QE and CE exams:

QE:
The ABS has recently opened up the opportunity to take the QE after your PGY4 year and before your chief year, if you meet certain requirements including case numbers. If you are eligible to do this, I would strongly encourage you to do so. I will elaborate in a minute on my thoughts on why.

First things first - what they say is true. The best predictor of success is the ABSITE. I took the ABSITE 7 times. My scores on the ABSITE ranged from a 60th percentile (intern year) to as high the 90s (research years). I never had any trouble or fell below the 50th percentile mark. And I passed the CE just fine.

I also felt like the ABSITE was also a representative exam of what the real thing will be like. Once I got over my nerves on the day of the exam, it was very easy to just fall into a comfortable rhythm and the exam was over before I knew it. It is because of this that I recommend taking the QE after PGY4. If you’ve done well on the ABSITE as a resident, you will do well on the real thing.

What resources would I recommend for the exam?
  1. SESAP: It’s a must. It’s written by the same people who write the EXAM, and it covers the majority of the relevant content. I found the answer explanations to be well written and helpful. I know there are bootlegs out there, but do yourself a favor and buy the latest edition. One thing I didn’t realize in advance was that the ABS exams are very “political”. They are testing the things that the board very strongly believes should be within the scope of practice of a general surgeon. This emphasis has shifted in recent years so it means that the older editions of SESAP may not hit the right points as much.
  2. Cameron’s: This is the best textbook to prepare for both the QE and the CE. I would recommend trying to read it over the course of your chief year. Short, relevant chapters. Easy to read and digest.
  3. SCORE: I’ve written some complaints about SCORE in the past. But I think it is the best option out there, especially in terms of the volume of questions. Over the course of the final 2 years of training I did all the SCORE questions as part of my ABSITE preparations.
  4. True Learn: It’s a pretty cheap month subscription, so I signed up for it in late June. Has a lot of questions and I used it for some extra repetition. It’s not perfect, but I thought the questions covered a broad range of topics. The question stems are way longer than the real exam and I thought it hit some esoterica, but still decent.
CE:
This is a different beast. The best preparation for this test, by far, is your chief residency year. You can study for this exam all you want, but your best preparation is real life experience.

I would point out that this exam has changed. A lot. The days of Hiram Polk walking into the bathroom in the middle of your exam and taking a piss while continuing to pimp you on the intricacies of a Whipple are gone. The exam is standardized. The examiners have some leeway, but they also have a script and standardized grading metrics. This is good, because it means that you can better prepare for the exam. It is bad because, as the “scripts” are increasingly figured out by the test takers, the ABS feels the need to twist the script every so often.

I strongly recommend the Osler course. I know it is expensive, and it is a time commitment. But it is also three days of intensive prep right when you need it. There is a good chance that you’ve been off in your CT fellowship for six months at this point and haven’t thought about the belly or a breast cancer case since the end of chief year. The prep course will throw out 90% of the scenarios you will get in the exam. So the day of the exam, when you get asked about that transmediastinal GSW, you’ll remember hearing the mock exam walking you right through what to do.

The course is not perfect. Some of the examiners are better instructors than others. But it is worth the cost. It also gives you three days to get away from the pressures of fellowship or practice and get your mind right for the exam. One thing I was not told or mentally prepared for - the course is LONG. They cram 30 hours of mock exams into those three days. The first two days of the course go until 7 or 8 pm.

For the CE, if possible, I would recommend two things: take it in one of the fall dates. In my mind, the sooner the better. Second, take it with some of your co-chiefs. These are your friends, you’ve been through a lot with them. You can bounce ideas and questions off them beforehand. The night before when you are all stressing out, you can grab a beer together and chill out at least a little. More so than if you were on your own.

Other resources for the exam:

-Dimick book (Clinical scenarios): I thought this was very helpful. It breaks down the most common scenarios for the exam. For most operations it gives you the “key steps” in a quick bullet point fashion, which is all people are going to want to ask.

-How to win: My god, can't agree with @SLUser11 more. I had a free copy of this, but it annoyed me to no end. His fake speech "script" was incredibly grating. Typos everywhere. Some of the answers are downright bad, especially anything critical care related.


My advice for the exam itself:

-The guiding principle for the board is that they want to see if you are a “safe” surgeon. It’s okay to err on the conservative side. No one is going to give you bonus points for saying you’ll do something laparoscopically or with some other advanced technique. One of the Osler instructors said: "We better not hear the word Robot come out of your mouths". If you keep your answers simple, you can avoid potential traps. But safe does not mean timid or indecisive.

-For the most part I really felt like the examiners are not trying to trick you. If you are going down a bad path, they are probably going to throw you a bone to try and get you back on track. Pay attention to those verbal (and nonverbal) cues from the examiners.

-That said, the examiners will sometimes ask you questions which to me felt like they are just trying to see if you will stick to your guns.

-Since there is a lot of oncology on the exam: Try to keep things simple. You don’t have to be the world’s expert on the newest neoadjuvant therapy. For example for melanoma - don’t even bring up ipilimumab and the other new targeted therapies, unless you are SURE you can discuss all the intricacies of when to give them.

-Don’t focus too much on the history portion. For the most part they are going to give you the history. Say something to the effect of “I would conduct a focused history, asking questions specifically about xxx risk factors” (such as radiation exposure if it’s a neck mass question, or family history if it’s a colon cancer question, etc). The examiners want you to get to management, not spend the whole time dragging you through the H&P

-Be systematic. Don’t rush. Most scenarios are going to get you into the operating room, but don’t dive in without the appropriate work up. If it’s a GI bleed, yes, they are probably going to make you operate on that person, but that doesn’t mean it’s the appropriate first step in management.

-Remember your ABCs, vitals, etc. Say you will start antibiotics. I liked one of the Osler instructors - he said - “act like you’re talking to your intern. If you don’t tell them to do it it doesn’t get done”.

-If (or rather when) you get stuck: a moment of silence is your best friend. Regroup. Don’t fall into the trap of word vomiting.

-When in doubt, tell the examiner what you would do in real life. Don’t spend too much time trying to figure out what the “board answer” is. You’re a well trained surgeon. Rely on that training.
 
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