ABS Certifying Exam, aka Oral Boards

[SLUser11]

Hi,

I'm taking the Oral Boards on March12th here in Houston, and I was hoping for some insight from the senior SDNers. I will say in advance that I am not taking a review course, primarily because I don't have any room on the credit card. I welcome any advice on test preparation, and I thank you in advance.

I am relatively fascile with the search function, but I've found very little info on preparation for the oral boards. What I did find in this thread was extremely useful, just as this thread for the QE helped me a few months ago.

I am in a predicament that I'm sure some of you have previously found yourselves in as well: I have way too much study material, and most of it is probably low yield. There's no way I can get through even half of the stuff, so I want my time to be as high yield as possible.

My resources:

1. Mark Neff's book, "Passing the General Surgery Oral Boards."
2. Brad Snyder's book, "How to Win on the ABS CE." This was a recommendation from a local that I'd never heard of previously. I'm a little gunshy about dedicating a lot of time to an unproven study source...but at least it wasn't from Surgisphere!
3. Safe Answers for the ABS CE by Sarmad Aji, 7th Edition (2002)...outdated and of questionable benefit, I'm planning on skipping this one.

4. SESAP 13 and 14 books, as well as SESAP 13 and 14 Audio Companions
5. Cameron's 9th edition and Sabiston's 17th edition.
6. Syllabus from a 2008 Osler review course

7. Lots of other stuff not to be mentioned, including something with 91 parts.


My current plan is to spend roughly 1 month studying a little bit every day, knowing that a demanding fellowship will frequently limit my daily productivity. I also have a family that I'd like to see from time to time. I'm giving somewhat personal info because I believe I'm probably living out the typical experience with it's associated time and money constraints.

From my material, I plan on listening to SESAP 13 and 14 audio companions casually on my way to and from work. I am going to read "How to Win," Neff's book, and the Osler syllabus and take notes. I'll use Cameron's for backup. Once that is completed, I'm going to get through as much of the unmentionables (#7) as possible, knowing that I will only end up reading a fraction. If I'm unexpectedly productive, I'll try to re-tackle SESAP 14.

Does anyone have advice to share? Is anyone else taking the exam soon? Has anyone used Snyder's book?

Thanks,

SLUser, board-eligible SDNer

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[daisygirl]

I'm taking the exam in Houston also. I will be dedicating roughly a month to studying for the exam too- I have a newborn and it is really hard to study with such a young baby despite the fact that I am not working. I am taking a review course though- the Odyssey course.

My plan is to use safe answers, review some areas in cameron (9th edition), and take the review course. Hopefully it will be enough. This test is costing me some bundle between exam fees, hotels, airfare, review course, etc...

 

[SLUser11]

I'm taking the exam in Houston also. I will be dedicating roughly a month to studying for the exam too- I have a newborn and it is really hard to study with such a young baby despite the fact that I am not working. I am taking a review course though- the Odyssey course.

My plan is to use safe answers, review some areas in cameron (9th edition), and take the review course. Hopefully it will be enough. This test is costing me some bundle between exam fees, hotels, airfare, review course, etc...

Congrats on the new baby. I think a review course is a really good idea, and it sounds like the Osler and Odyssey courses are the more time tested options. I personally don't have the money to do it. It's amazing how little I've saved despite frequent moonlighting and living in a relatively inexpensive area of the country. I blame my own recent additions to the family, as well as my fellowship interviews/moving expenses. We did have some money saved, but I lost a lot of money selling my house.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Apart from the basic comments I made in the thread you referenced above, I would say that there is no replacement for practicing ALOUD, preferably with a BC surgeon who has taken the exam recently. You'd be surprised that what seems so easy to discuss in casual conversation or in print, becomes so much harder when you are asked to discuss in response to a pointed oral query.

I have the Snyder book and forgot about it. It has tons of typos which are annoying but the content is pretty good. I much preferred it over the Ness book (and Safe Answers is pretty outdated now, although some of the stuff still stands and it does give you a framework).

 

[Smurfette]

Practice IS key. If your co-fellows are going to be taking it, I would try having study nights to quiz each other (frankly, a "group setting" is best since it may make you a little more self-conscious than one on one). Or a willing attending or two.

I would add (sorry, didn't re-read the other threads in detail) to have an atlas handy. Periodically describe from start to finish the operations you are talking about. Especially the "big ones"---pancreas, esophagus, stomach procedures, etc.

FWIW, I liked the Neff book. I practiced all the curveballs too, out loud. I did glance at "safe answers" for some potential additional topics, and used the out of date stuff as a reason to read up on things (sometimes I'd just refer to Fiser, if it was a quick reference).

I'm not familiar with the Snyder book.

Your unmentionables are likely extremely useful, especially if you aren't doing a course. I had the 91 question thing and didn't have the time to get through it, but it seemed reasonable as far as scenarios from what I did look over. If I didn't do a course, I would have definitely gone through these as well as some of the other random stuff I had.

Another comment: the critical care scenarios may not have a specific "diagnosis" and "fix" to chase. Bad things will happen to your patient no matter what you do and you have to react/order tests appropriately. DO pay attention to extra details (like the broken femur or broken ribs in a patient with peritonitis....the patient could bleed out or get a PTX while you're trying to ex lap). Don't assume you messed up and caused the event to happen. Don't assume that the patient dying means you failed, either. They are trying to see how you react to what they throw at you.

 

[SLUser11]

I just started thumbing through Snyder's book, and one thing I like is that for each topic, there's a number (e.g. 0, 4, 12, 27) that indicates how many times that specific topic has been used in the recent years on the oral boards.

However, what I do not like is the question and answer section in each chapter. The way the hypothetical test-taker talks and reacts to the scenarios seems ridiculous to me. If other people have read this, you'll know what I mean, but it's hard to describe....he comes off cavalier and arrogant, and he seems to "showing all his cards" up front, allowing a creative examiner to pounce if so desired.....e.g. Examiner: A 55 yo smoker comes in with dysphagia and weight loss...Examinee: "This sounds like a poster child for esophageal cancer. I would get tests x, y, and z. Assuming they're negative, there are several options including a,b, c, but I would do C. If the path comes back as x, I would offer chemo, etc."

Also, even though I know it's a good idea, I have to admit that I have no plans to do practice scenarios with other friends/surgeons. There's just no good time or place for that.

 

[traumachick]

I'm in somewhat the same predicament, not taking the orals until June though (was dumb and didn't sign up until the last minute and then got wait listed for Houston, so decided to take a sure spot in June). After talking to quite a few friends who recently took the orals (including some who failed), I'm planning on starting studying near the end of this month. I'm tempted to take the Osler course in Houston in March (I'm here also), but $$ and time are also issues.

I spent some time studying with a group who took the 12/11 test and have a study group set up for June also. We're planning to use safe answers (old but I think still worth using if you're willing to update it) and do lots of practice orals with one another and various attendings who have offered to help. Last year the group I was with utilized skype and other internet means to maximize the time we could give each other mocks, etc.

From what I've heard, concentrating on complications and thought processes is a lot more high yield than memorizing procedures, etc.

 

[surg]

If you are living anywhere close to a residency program, consider calling them and asking if you can do mock orals with them. Most programs do it for their senior residents in the spring. If they have extra slots, many might be willing to accommodate you. If you are shy, consider having your old program director or coordinator contact them and explain that you are looking for some practice. Nothing simulates the real test like doing it with strangers!

 

[SLUser11]

I just started thumbing through Snyder's book...

Well, I'm through 1/3rd of Snyder's book, and I'm not a big fan. Besides my annoyance with his simulated dialogue, he spells Crohn's disease C-H-R-O-N-S....and it's not a typo since it appears that way in several different portions of the book and chapter titles....Chron's Disease....drives me nuts...

Anyway, I've used Neff and the Osler syllabus for previous Mock Orals during residency, and I feel like they might be a better place to start for the other board-eligible SDNers....

I forgot to mention that the "How to Win" book basically regurgitates Cameron's without any new insights.

 

[Buzz Me]

Luckily our program holds pretty hardcore mock orals twice a year for all senior residents.

 

[SLUser11]

There's a 95% chance that I'll get a question on post-cholecystectomy bile leaks. I know how I treat them in real life, but I wonder if that's different than what they want.

Pt presents with pain and/or jaundice and/or fever.....

1. Physical exam and CBC/CMP/Lipase

2. CT A/P followed by percutaneous drain if sub-hepatic fluid collection found. (Here, I think an argument could be made for ultrasound instead, but what will U/S show me that CT won't? I guess an impacted CBD stone...it seems like in real life, this patient gets a CT right away).

3. If drainage is bilious, go forward with ERCP, define the leak, and stent if appropriate. (here, I don't know where the HIDA factors into the equation. If there's bile in the perc drain, I'd go straight to ERCP....it will be diagnostic and therapeutic, and the only things it misses is a duct of Lushka. If they tell me ERCP isn't available, then I think HIDA or MRCP is appropriate in a stable patient. I wouldn't rush into a PTC unless the patient had bad obstructive jaundice or cholangitis.)

What do you guys think the role is for Ultrasound and HIDA scans in the post-cholecystectomy patient? What about MRCP?

 

[doc05]

I'd go w ultrasound before CT. You'll see the dilated CBD and fluid collection -- that's enough to go forward with the ERCP. CT is not needed,

 

[SLUser11]

I'd go w ultrasound before CT. You'll see the dilated CBD and fluid collection -- that's enough to go forward with the ERCP. CT is not needed,

I understand the hypothetical reason for U/S, but in my experience, these patients present with vague symptoms, and I end up wanting to look at the adjacent organs in more detail (including pancreas, duodenum, small bowel, stomach).

Also, from a pure practical standpoint, I feel like ultrasound is operator dependent, and there's more room for error and misses...and the radiologists from my home program tended to prefer CT-guided drainage over U/S guided drainage....wrap all that up, and I usually just ordered CT up front.

What about HIDA and MRCP?

 

[doc05]

Not a big fan of HIDA; it has its role but you can probably manage the pt without it.

MRCP maybe has a role if GI is hesitant to do an ERCP -- assume a stable patient with some question as to the utility of an invasive procedure. Also good in liver/pancreatic trauma patients.

 

[SLUser11]

$829 to take the Osler course...and it's in my current city, so there's no extra hotel costs, etc....still, I simply don't have the money.

This is going to be a tough decision.....

 

[ESU_MD]

I bet you could just wander into that course and nobody would even notice.

Btw: the osler oral review isnt a typical course, but rather just mock exams from the audience over and over. A real confidence builder to see how better off you are compared to others!!

 

[SLUser11]

I bet you could just wander into that course and nobody would even notice.

Btw: the osler oral review isnt a typical course, but rather just mock exams from the audience over and over. A real confidence builder to see how better off you are compared to others!!

I managed to get my institution to foot the bill, so I'm signed up for the course.

Even though I absolutely hate the Snyder book, I'm still driven by my compulsions to finish it....he just dressed a burn wound with "silverdine," then he had a post-op patient with low UOP, and his comments were to 1) place a swan, 2) start low-dose dopamine, and 3) give diuretics....

 

[doc05]

wow. glad I didn't buy that book!

 

[ajlmd]

I took it in October 2008 when I was in fellowship. Thought I would have plenty of time to study but didn't get started until a week beforehand.

I think the Osler course is great if you have the $$ but pretty much all of the material is in their review book. The time away from work was the best thing about it. I crammed big time- I read that and Safe Answers the week beforehand and I passed the first time.

Of the 14 scenarios I got over the 3 rooms all but 2 were nearly verbatim from the scenarios in those books.

Don't overlook the weird things that seem out of date. I wondered why Osler spent a decent amount of time one day discussing the specifics on how to use a Sengstaken-blakemore tube, as most people have rarely, if at all, have had to use one during their training. Sure enough, I got asked that exact question, and was asked to explained specifically how the instrument was designed (balloon, weight, what exactly to do with it.) The review book saved me on that one.

There are a few e-mails that circulate with a bunch of people's test experiences. I read a few of those but honestly did not have the time to get through much.

The friends I have known who failed got flustered, "took the bait' and got led down a bad path, or tried to show how much they know about "cutting edge" technique/ ideas. I probably didn't give the most eloquent answers but I stayed calm, said what I knew would be a safe management plan, and made a point not to overembellish. Keep it basic and safe. If someone seems apprehensive or tries to challenge your answer, respond directly but remind yourself not to get nervous or get led down a path you otherwise would not take.



good luck

 

[Amy]

The friends I have known who failed got flustered, "took the bait' and got led down a bad path, or tried to show how much they know about "cutting edge" technique/ ideas. I probably didn't give the most eloquent answers but I stayed calm, said what I knew would be a safe management plan, and made a point not to overembellish. Keep it basic and safe. If someone seems apprehensive or tries to challenge your answer, respond directly but remind yourself not to get nervous or get led down a path you otherwise would not take.
good luck

Could not agree with this more. Don't bother discussing a cutting edge treatment you read about last week (or even last year), unless you are an EXPERT on the topic and wrote the papers yourself. Play it safe... that's really the point of the exam, to make sure you're safe. Do NOT let them trick you into changing your answer (and they WILL try). Stick to your guns. It makes you seem confident (even if you're horrified on the inside), and that's what they want to see. There are many right answers to almost every question, so the WAY you discuss it is important.

Any review book is fine... go through at least 1 scenario per day, use Cameron to fill in your gaps/review, and you should be OK. Review techniques of the operations you need to know (listed in every review book). SESAP will not help for the CE, though there's no harm in listening to the audio portion while your in the car.

You know the basic advice, but it's probably worth repeating. Dress well (duh!), watch your body language. Sit still. Make good eye contact. Confidence is key! Say "I would do this..." instead of "I guess I would do this..." or "I could do either this or that..." If the examiner says "Really? You'd do that?" Simply look him in the eye and say "yes." He will then back off, and likely end the scenario because you've proven that you know what you're doing.

Good luck.

 

[SLUser11]

A few questions have arised during my studying, and I thought I'd poll the SDN community:

1. In a patient that is post-CABG and/or a recent MI, if they present with appendicitis, would you guys do an appendectomy, or does a fear of recurrent MI warrant primary antibiotic therapy? My feeling is that it's best to put the appendix in the bucket, as the stress of sepsis is just as bad as a lap appy, and post-CABG patients have fresh new vessels anyway.

2. In a patient who is s/p Lap Chole and presents with a CBD or common hepatic duct transection, when is the best time to do reconstruction with a Hepatico-J? Obviously if you identify the injury in the OR, immediate reconstruction is warranted (although the literature shows better outcomes if a different surgeon does the repair). What about when they are 5 days postop? 10 days postop? Should these patients be drained and allowed to cool off, then set up for a hepatico-J 4-6 weeks down the road? It seems like patients that are sick (peritonitis, etc), drainage and a cool-off period are appropriate....but if they're a few days postop and not too sick, why not just do the repair?

3. If an incidental ovarian mass is found, and it's not a cyst or abscess, what is the appropriate decision? In real life, I wouldn't do anything to the ovary at the time of surgery, especially without consent. It's not really an emergency, and can wait until the proper surgeon is available.



Thanks.

 

[daisygirl]

1-That is a tough one. I would bite the bullet and put the appendix in the bucket. A patient with that sort of history is going to do very poorly if their appendix perforates while one attempts to medically manage a disease process that has been traditionally managed surgically.

2- If possible, I would do within the first five days, otherwise I would wait at least 6 weeks. There is a paragraph in Cameron that actually talks about this- basically said the camps are split evenly amongst those who would fix it whenever they needed to and those who would wait at least six weeks. There doesn't seem to be a real right or wrong answer for this one.

3- I wouldn't do anything. If you biopsy the ovary you are violating oncological principles...if the mass is cancer. Ovarian cancer is surgically staged at the time of surgery. What I would do though is look for peritoneal mets and biopsy that, and I would also send fluid off for cytology and then close.

 

[doc05]

for 2 and 3, I agree with daisygirl.

for 1, that's a tougher situation. post-CABG and post-MI aren't equivalent, but the important thing is the very real risk of re-infarction (and mortality) if you operate on someone who has recently had an MI.

 

[Smurfette]

for 2 and 3, I agree with daisygirl.

for 1, that's a tougher situation. post-CABG and post-MI aren't equivalent, but the important thing is the very real risk of re-infarction (and mortality) if you operate on someone who has recently had an MI.

You could consider doing an open appy under local/sedation if they are s/p MI.

I've seen and/or done a few operations under local for high-risk patients, including a loop colostomy (obstructing sigmoid CA) and gallstone ileus stone removal. I remember thinking beforehand that my attendings were crazy....but these cases actually all went really well.

 

[SLUser11]

I'm sitting in the Osler course right now.... It's a little painful to watch other doctors flop around...I'm sure my turn is coming...

It is helpful, though, in raising the confidence in my relative fund of knowledge.

 

[SLUser11]

There is a significant disparity in the level of preparedness among different board eligible surgeons at this course. Some people are simply not ready for the boards.

There's also a lot of argumentative people who ask questions more to display knowledge and hear themselves talk than to actually obtain new information.

 

[doc05]

any particularly interesting scenarios to discuss?

 

[blue2000]

There is a significant disparity in the level of preparedness among different board eligible surgeons at this course. Some people are simply not ready for the boards.

There's also a lot of argumentative people who ask questions more to display knowledge and hear themselves talk than to actually obtain new information.

Oh yeah. In your shoes about 10 months ago. Listening to some people was honestly, kind of painful cause they just couldn't put it together verbally. Though I must say that on my turn, the examiner and I disagreed on the management of the patient scenario, and to this day I stick to my guns and would have answered it on the board the way I answered it there.

For me, the benefits of the Osler course was 1) hear a million different scenarios, and making sure I had an outline of the management in my head 2) Getting away from my family and small child and work responsibilities so I could get good rest, focus on myself, and review a few things I hadn't gotten to 3) watch people flounder terribly, and realize that based on the population I was seeing, I probably was no in the bottom 24%.

I took my orals on the last day of session, and was in a city several thousand miles from home. I had great plans to review on those two extra days. Mainly, I wandered around Chicago, caught up with friends, and got more anxious. And then, in a snap it was done and I was on the plane home.

Best of luck.

 

[SLUser11]

any particularly interesting scenarios to discuss?

Not really. All of the scenarios and curveballs were classics that could be found in review books and old tests.

They did present a patient with a hepatic flexure cancer that eroded into the head of the pancreas, which required an extended right colectomy and en bloc whipple.

3) watch people flounder terribly, and realize that based on the population I was seeing, I probably was no in the bottom 24%.

According to their website, the Osler pass rate is 96%. It's honestly hard to believe. After a day there, I have concluded that either 1) the CE is more lenient than it's reputation, or 2) the course is really that good, and all the people that did horribly today will be transformed by Monday morning.

One very positive thing I should say is that the course promises to touch on all major topics by the end of the three days....so if you pay attention, there shouldn't be too many major surprises with the actual test.

 

[blue2000]

According to their website, the Osler pass rate is 96%. It's honestly hard to believe. After a day there, I have concluded that either 1) the CE is more lenient than it's reputation, or 2) the course is really that good, and all the people that did horribly today will be transformed by Monday morning.

One very positive thing I should say is that the course promises to touch on all major topics by the end of the three days....so if you pay attention, there shouldn't be too many major surprises with the actual test.

I call BS on their statistic. I know at least three people failed in my review course. I think there were 100 of us, and I didn't poll everyone, I just heard word of mouth. Now maybe I was in a particularly...dense group, but I'm suspicious. Though I think there are people who stumble at Osler and get it together for the orals, thats less likely. Early in the course, it seemed as though there were people who didn't understand how you should answer the questions, rather than actually lacking in knowledge.

Also, I agree with you about the broad coverage. There were several scenarios that I hadn't reviewed specifically, and having a mental flow chart was helpful. My orals, while I didn't exactly get a verbatim question from the Osler bank of scenarios, I felt as though they covered things in such a way that almost all the bases were covered.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I also call BS on that Osler stat. I didn't take their course for the orals, but know many who did and stated that they met retakers.

I'll bet it includes multiple retakes.

 

[ajlmd]

There's also a lot of argumentative people who ask questions more to display knowledge and hear themselves talk than to actually obtain new information.

Yes- I think that is a big problem for a lot of people. They want to impress with all of the complicated, up-and-coming knowledge they can think of, but flounder through articulating something safe and reasonable.

A few scenarios I got I realized I could have given a more complicated, attempt-to-impress with all of my interesting knowledge sort of answer, but I just wanted to show them that I can make safe, reasonable decisions and am not a danger to the community so I didn't get fancy.

I assume tomorrow at 12 EST is the big day for all of you that took it this go around? Good luck! The endo nurse I was working with checked online for me as I was scoping and then made a big fuss and told everyone that I had passed

 

[SLUser11]

I assume tomorrow at 12 EST is the big day for all of you that took it this go around? Good luck! The endo nurse I was working with checked online for me as I was scoping and then made a big fuss and told everyone that I had passed

Well, I passed the CE, and I'm now board certified. I feel good about it, but it's sort of anti-climactic. I can't go into the specifics of the test, but I can say that the scenarios were all very reasonable, and the examiners were not aggressive or argumentative.

To summarize my preparation, I started studying about 5-6 weeks before the test. I went through How to Win, and I've been open about my distaste for the book. I then went through Neff's book, which I had already highlighted for my mock orals.

I decided to not use Safe Answers (2003), but at the Osler course I saw that a new edition (2011) exists, so that may have been a good option. I also ended up skipping "91 scenarios" because I just didn't think it was helpful. I did not practice any mock scenarios out loud, but I had mock orals PGY3-5 as a resident, which was definitely helpful.

I took 2 weeks off without studying (end of February) because I had some other projects to do (lecture for work, and poster for meeting). After that, I studied some of my "old material" which wasn't great because the answers seemed wrong a lot. I went through specific topics in Cameron's, and used UpToDate to review current chemo regimens and confirm which stages get what (neoadjuv vs. adjuv, +-XRT).

I took the Osler course the weekend before the test, and I'm not sure that it was necessary. It took away from me the last few days before the test that I could use to prepare, and most of the course was spent listening to other people struggle. It's utility is in making sure you've been exposed to all the common scenarios, and making you feel better about yourself once compared to the other examinees.

I think a reasonable approach is to get the knowledge-based stuff out of the way in advance, then use Neff's book or the new Safe Answers to study, with Cameron's and UpToDate as backups. I think old material is useful but not mandatory. I think the Osler course is good if you want to practice the tennis match between you and the examiner.

 

[blue2000]

Well, I passed the CE, and I'm now board certified. I feel good about it, but it's sort of anti-climactic. I can't go into the specifics of the test, but I can say that the scenarios were all very reasonable, and the examiners were not aggressive or argumentative.

To summarize my preparation, I started studying about 5-6 weeks before the test. I went through How to Win, and I've been open about my distaste for the book. I then went through Neff's book, which I had already highlighted for my mock orals.

I decided to not use Safe Answers (2003), but at the Osler course I saw that a new edition (2011) exists, so that may have been a good option. I also ended up skipping "91 scenarios" because I just didn't think it was helpful. I did not practice any mock scenarios out loud, but I had mock orals PGY3-5 as a resident, which was definitely helpful.

I took 2 weeks off without studying (end of February) because I had some other projects to do (lecture for work, and poster for meeting). After that, I studied some of my "old material" which wasn't great because the answers seemed wrong a lot. I went through specific topics in Cameron's, and used UpToDate to review current chemo regimens and confirm which stages get what (neoadjuv vs. adjuv, +-XRT).

I took the Osler course the weekend before the test, and I'm not sure that it was necessary. It took away from me the last few days before the test that I could use to prepare, and most of the course was spent listening to other people struggle. It's utility is in making sure you've been exposed to all the common scenarios, and making you feel better about yourself once compared to the other examinees.

I think a reasonable approach is to get the knowledge-based stuff out of the way in advance, then use Neff's book or the new Safe Answers to study, with Cameron's and UpToDate as backups. I think old material is useful but not mandatory. I think the Osler course is good if you want to practice the tennis match between you and the examiner.

Congratulations! As someone who completed the process a year ago, I agree with all of this. Most important, is that you learn and think critically about every decision you make as you become a more senior resident. If you don't understand why you are managing a person in a certain way, or the operative approach, you need to ask or research to really understand. The questions that I felt most comfortable with were scenarios that I had personally managed in the past, and I found myself slipping into a conversation with the examiner about what I do, rather than what "the answer" is

 

[Mango]

I just passed the Oral boards this week, and man it feels goooood!

I studied for about 6 weeks, while extrememly busy in my fellowship. I used the Neff book, read most of Sabiston, and a stack of old tests. I also took the Osler course, which I thought was helpfull. Though the extra private session was a waste of $$.

Honestly, my test was hard. And I was very well prepared by my residency and studying. I was convinced I had failed, until several people told me a fact I didn't know - if you are doing well in a room, they ramp the questions up, and make them progressively harder! After hearing this, I looked back at my notes from after the test, and it was the 4th question in each room that was the toughest. That made me feel a little better.

All in all, it was a strange experience. You prep for 7 years of residency, the 6 weeks studying, then you're standing in a hotel hallway in a suit with 20 other people in suits, waiting to be called in for this 30 minute grilling. Then they give you no time to change rooms, so you run to rooms 2 and 3, still thinking about the last answer you wish you would have said differently, then suddenly- it's over. You tun in a survey and walk out the door into a cab. It was so bizarre.

Glad it's over! One time was plenty for me!

 

[SLUser11]

I stumbled upon an ABS CE review course while recently reading the JSE. While I had never heard of it, the course has been around for 20 years, and is by far the most extensive and well-organized course I've seen. It is pricey at $3000 for surgeons-in-practice, but I wonder if the rate for residents is slightly lower than that.

The course is affiliated with the APDS, and the student to faculty ratio is very low. They've actually published their results in the JSE, which shows a 97% pass rate for those who follow up (but follow-up was sub-optimal). That's extremely impressive given the background of most course participants. I've attached the article for review.

While it seems like overkill for all-comers, I think this course would be perfect for high-risk residents (i.e. low ABSITE scores and poor performance on Mock Orals) and for surgeons with previous failures. I'd never heard of it, so they probably need to ramp up advertising....

 

[ESU_MD]

I agree that the most bizarre thing is how quick it goes. I remember having a hard time focusing on the questions. 90 minutes is over in a flash!

 

[Winged Scapula]

I stumbled upon an ABS CE review course while recently reading the JSE. While I had never heard of it, the course has been around for 20 years, and is by far the most extensive and well-organized course I've seen.

Never heard of it either. I found the following the most interesting component of the attached article:

"Four surgeons (3%) in the 2002-2011 group and 4 (2%) in the 1991-2002 group were asked not to return to the course because of severe knowledge deficiencies or ethical/behavioral issues based on faculty evaluations (Table 1). For example, rather than admit to large gaps in their knowledge base, 1 surgeon believed that his perceived race was the root cause of his failure and another simply argued that he was entitled to success on the CE because he had represented the United States in national athletic competitions. One surgeon chose to substitute the didactic and small-group sessions of the course with family recreational events yet reported to his institution that he had attended every program session. Another young surgeon entered a faculty member’s suite to examine personal belongings without permission and then had difficulty comprehending that his behavior was not acceptable for a surgeon."

 

[11blade]

For those who are interested in practicing oral questions by phone and/or Skype, I will be taking the general surgery oral exam in November 2012. Please send me a message if you are interested in practicing.

 

[SPJboston]

I'm taking the oral boards in nov also and would like to have a practice partner. Anyone interested please message me. Thanks!

 

[opr8n]

so im preparing for my oral boards and reading Safe Answers ..

ummm .... this book is terrible

The answers are soooo out of date and some of the answers are just so far out of left field that I never heard of EVER

anyone else experience this

 

[Winged Scapula]

As I recall there was supposedly an update in 2007 but from my observation it was no different than my 2003 version.

But yes some of the things are no longer correct or the safest answer.

 

[SLUser11]

so im preparing for my oral boards and reading Safe Answers ..

ummm .... this book is terrible

The answers are soooo out of date and some of the answers are just so far out of left field that I never heard of EVER

anyone else experience this

I've only seen the old version, but I know a "new" version exists because some people were carrying it around when I took the Osler course.

If you don't like the answers or the format, I would recommend using another resource. I like Neff's book, although it's simple and abridged.

 

[opr8n]

I have neff and plan to use it too
I have the newest 2011 version of safe answers and it seems like the answers are a decade wrong

 

[Winged Scapula]

I have neff and plan to use it too
I have the newest 2011 version of safe answers and it seems like the answers are a decade wrong

His own website states that the 2007 edition is the latest and that if you have that, you shouldn't order anything "newer" since its the same. So sounds like it hasn't been updated since 2007 and as I noted above, the 2007 looked the same as the 2003 version I had, so you're probably right - its about 10 years old.

 

[jubb]

There is also the book " How to Win: On the American Board of Surgery Certifying Exam" by Brad Snyder. I'm using this, and the Neff book as an outline, along with looking stuff up in the most recent cameron's to study.

 

[opr8n]

10 days and counting
oh my

 

[Winged Scapula]

10 days and counting
oh my

Beta blocker
Lomotil
No gas producing foods the night before
Candy in your pocket (if your mouth tends to get dry); suck on it BETWEEN rooms (not while in one ). Some have resorted to hiding a bottle of water in the hallway between rooms.

You'll be fine. Fastest 90 minutes of your life. That and the wait until Thursday when results are posted.

 

[maxheadroom]

If you're going to try a beta-blocker, make sure you do it before the exam. I know a girl who had a near-disaster at an exam who hadn't tried it before. Whoops.

 

[Winged Scapula]

If you're going to try a beta-blocker, make sure you do it before the exam. I know a girl who had a near-disaster at an exam who hadn't tried it before. Whoops.

Oh yeah, definitely don't try it for the first time the day of.