a few hpsp questions

[DatInterviewDood]

hello I was accepted army hpsp and am waiting on scroll. I shot my recruiter some questions, but I also wanted to ask on here for insight. thanks in advance!

1. If accepted, do I necessarily do training this summer or can it also be done after m1?

2. Are civilian residencies rare for hpsp students?

3. Any other pros/cons of military residencies?

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[WernickeDO]

hello I was accepted army hpsp and am waiting on scroll. I shot my recruiter some questions, but I also wanted to ask on here for insight. thanks in advance!

1. If accepted, do I necessarily do training this summer or can it also be done after m1?

2. Are civilian residencies rare for hpsp students?

3. Any other pros/cons of military residencies?

1: Army typically does BOLC after MS1, unless you're USUHS
2: Yes
3: Check the stickies and read this forum. Frankly that's a scary question to ask if you are on the verge of signing.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Yikes. OP, we're here to help but you need to get your **** together. There's a wealth of information in this forum from the stickies and beyond. Your questions suggest you are far from the level of information you should have to be at the "waiting for scroll" point.

 

[DatInterviewDood]

sorry for the silly / dumb questions- I'm going through all of the other threads and stickies!

one follow-up question though: Would there be any pro, training wise, to a military residency over a civilian one?

 

[Homunculus]

--your friendly neighborhood leading a horse to water caveman

 

[Homunculus]

sorry for the silly / dumb questions- I'm going through all of the other threads and stickies!

one follow-up question though: Would there be any pro, training wise, to a military residency over a civilian one?

don't be sorry-- but at this point like @Gastrapathy noted above these are things you should have had well sorted out. it's a life changing decision-- it's like getting married except the military doesn't let you divorce it. would you arrange a wedding and then a month or two before ask "hey, what's it like being married? are there any advantages?" lol

independent learning is a valuable skill, and vital to being a good physician.

pro/cons of military residency depends on what you want out of residency. *in general* I can't think of any advantages per se, other than you will be more familiar with the way the .mil works when you are an attending. and you'll be paid more.

--your friendly neighborhood bone throwing caveman

 

[Shikima]

It's a wedding, and then you find out who the groom is on the honeymoon.

 

[Gastrapathy]

sorry for the silly / dumb questions- I'm going through all of the other threads and stickies!

one follow-up question though: Would there be any pro, training wise, to a military residency over a civilian one?

If you want to do Trop Med/ID, the Navy is the way to go. It actually is better.

If you are going to perform poorly at a new DO puppy mill and wouldn't have matched otherwise, then access to .mil residencies are a positive.

The primary care residencies aren't terrible.

You get paid more as a resident.

The galley is inexpensive.

Parking is free (but you might walk quite a ways).

You will be able to ignore all those pesky job search emails that always seem to show lighthouses, bridges and lakes and promise a nearby airport to allow you to flee wherever they are selling.

You'll be able to leave the military as early as 2027-2030.

 

[Gastrapathy]

It's a wedding, and then you find out who the groom is on the honeymoon.

BOHICA

 

[DatInterviewDood]

The primary care residencies aren't terrible.

Haha what this implies is a bit scary. thanks for the help all

After reading through threads it sounds like GMO is a real thing and is not very appealing to me. It sounds like some hpsp'ers also just go 4 years of GMO and then get out. Hmm...

 

[CitizenQ]

I plan on writing a longer post on this topic, but I'll sum it up: HPSP is a terrible idea unless you want a competitive residency/fellowship. The military treats you like chattel for your entire time in service. However, I have seen many uncompetitive residents go into lucrative fields like dermatology. These residents would never get into a derm fellowship in the civilian world but waltz in through the military system. Other than surgery (ortho in particular), it's easier to get into a specific area in the military where some programs do not fill their slots every year.

 

[backrow]

I plan on writing a longer post on this topic, but I'll sum it up: HPSP is a terrible idea unless you want a competitive residency/fellowship. The military treats you like chattel for your entire time in service. However, I have seen many uncompetitive residents go into lucrative fields like dermatology. These residents would never get into a derm fellowship in the civilian world but waltz in through the military system. Other than surgery (ortho in particular), it's easier to get into a specific area in the military where some programs do not fill their slots every year.

This is definitely not true for all services or specialties. For example, Peds in the Navy can be ridiculously competitive some years. EM can be harder in the Navy as well. The problem with a blanket statement such as this one is the extreme variances that can occur from one year to the next.

Do sometimes applicants that appear subpar get residencies or fellowships they might not get? Yes, but that also happens in the civilian world. I wouldn't use residency chance for a particular specialty as a reason to join the service.


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[DatInterviewDood]

I plan on writing a longer post on this topic, but I'll sum it up: HPSP is a terrible idea unless you want a competitive residency/fellowship. The military treats you like chattel for your entire time in service. However, I have seen many uncompetitive residents go into lucrative fields like dermatology. These residents would never get into a derm fellowship in the civilian world but waltz in through the military system. Other than surgery (ortho in particular), it's easier to get into a specific area in the military where some programs do not fill their slots every year.

Thanks for the reply. Did you do HPSP btw?

For competitive residencies, like ortho, do the candidates coming back from a GMO get preference over new grads?

 

[DatInterviewDood]

I did HPSP because I came from a military family and had an itch to scratch. My ADSO will be up soon, and I will be separating. I don't regret my choice based on what I knew, but I would not make the same choice today. The BS factor in the Army is bad and getting worse every day. From what I know from my Navy colleagues, it's worse there. (I do not know many Navy folks so take that line with a grain of salt.) The extra pay is not worth the complete lack of freedom to make any choices. I think it's gotten worse than it was 10-20 years ago based on stories from my mentors.

I'll add this fact. Traditionally, the military seeks to keep 25% of its MC officers through O-6 (this is widely discussed when they changed pay structures as part of DOPMA decades ago). Today, I can only think of one of my O-4 counterparts who might stay in to 20. 25% retention will not happen. All of us joined for the right reasons and were/are willing to make sacrifices but none of us enjoy the daily nonsense. I didn't mind deploying for nine months, but I hate the constant taskings to places like NTC, GS staffing issues, "accountability," idiotic productivity measurements, neverending training, and poor leadership, among other problems. There is no stability and it's not worth it.

^ Just read this really helpful post on another thread. I would love to read anything that you write on the topic. It sounds like you would tell a naive little new med student like me "hell no" to HPSP.

 

[DatInterviewDood]

I went to a civilian med school doing HPSP and then got deferment to a civilian residency. So I was able to skip the GMO year. That being said, I can tell you "its all about the needs of the army/navy/AF" when it comes time to get a civilian deferment for a specific specialty. For instance, if they need 30 ortho surgeons but they only have 15 military ortho spots, then they're going to offer ortho civilian deferments.

Best chance of getting civilian deferment is if you're going into a specialty the branch has a need for. Being a competitive med student is always best but be careful on this one because they may prefer to keep the top applicants in military spots and give deferments to other ones (makes sense, why would you let your most attractive applicant go train somewhere else). That being said if you have extenuating circumstances (sick family member or pregnant spouse or something) that would require you to be in a location without a military training hospital, they will take this into account when it comes time to give civilian deferments.

Most people do ODS between MS1 and MS2 year & you can even do it after MS4 but this can cause an issue bc you'd have to make sure you're out of ODS before intern year starts. I know people who did this and had no problem but other people will advise against it. The major benefit of doing it between MS1 and MS2 year is that when you do military rotations 4th year you'll know how to wear your uniform, ranks etc. Honestly, I hadn't done ODS before my military rotations and it was fine.

Either military or civilian residency will give you good training. If you plan on a long term career in military medicine it makes sense to do military residency. If you'd rather do civilian medicine after you pay back HPSP, go for a civilian residency so you can make connections there. Although in either case I dont think it matters much. Be aware though that if you do a military residency in something like surgery your payback is now 5 years instead of the original 4. Once you do your rotations at military centers and compare it to civilian ones you'll know which one you'd prefer.

Thank you for the helpful reply. So did you do ODS after MS4?

Also, were you aiming for civilian deferment from the start for residency? And have you been deployed since finishing residency?

 

[fhockey13]

Thank you for the helpful reply. So did you do ODS after MS4?

Also, were you aiming for civilian deferment from the start for residency? And have you been deployed since finishing residency?

Yes and yes. I'm still in residency so no deployment yet

 

[DatInterviewDood]

Yes and yes. I'm still in residency so no deployment yet

May I ask what specialty you're pursuing?