2017 Pathology NRMP statistics

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Pessimists can never be proven wrong. Their predictions are just delayed awhile, or they will latch on to some specific thing to prove their point. Optimists can have a similar problem although they are at least a lot more pleasant to be around and will typically work hard to keep improving things that they see need to be improved.

I have always been an advocate for nuance and realism. Anecdotes can be informative but are not necessarily trend setting. Trends can be informative but are not necessarily easily understandable or predictive.

The pessimist has the luxury of always dwelling in the negative. When the negative doesn't happen as much as they thought, they just shift that to further into the future. If they don't want to do that, they identify negative trends to focus on amidst the good.
Perhaps the pessimistic-optimistic split is secondary to our different experiences and
I tend to think it is far too exhausting and useless to be Chicken Little. It gets you nothing. If your fears are confirmed, you don't get a prize, you just get your worst fears confirmed and you can talk about how right you were. That and 25 cents can get you 10 minutes at a parking meter. Personally, I acknowledge the challenges and the difficulties, but work to make the future as good as I can. And I try to surround myself with people who feel the same way. Selfishness only goes so far, and the truly selfish usually end up the most miserable.

If I listened to some people on this forum 13 years ago, I wouldn't be in the greatest career I could have imagined, working with a great group of people, and getting paid well to do something I enjoy and have a talent for. But that being said, you do have to listen to all voices. Understand what you are doing, understand who you are and what you want, and always be prepared and vigilant. So I appreciate the naysayers on this forum as well as the optimists, although I have greater respect for the realists.
Perhaps the optimistic-pessimistic split is secondary to varied experiences and expectations.Also there may be differences between academic and community pathologists.

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It's also just a general way of looking at the world. Experience colors this but it isn't everything.
 
What programs in the Midwest and Southeast would you recommend to do a DO with a Step 1 of 239 (taking Step 2 CK also)? I want a program with a big enough name to be recognizable in the Pathology community. My goal is community practice, either hospital, PP based, or a combination. I'm not interested in Academics.
 
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Im an incoming M1 student and I have explored the field enough to be 99% sure it is what I want to pursue in the future. I'm going to work hard to be the bset pathologist I can be, regardless of how "uncompetitive" it is. I have already built some conmections with program directors and some pathologists.

As someone said here, the field needs bright and motivated AMGs who couldve gone for another specialty but chose pathology for a genuine interest in it, and not because it's the only specialty they could get in.

Wait for me, path! I'm coming for you.
 
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What does around a 240 on USMLE Step 1 and around a 250 on USMLE Step 2 buy you in terms of Pathology programs as a DO? Ill have 12-14 weeks of Pathology exposure through rotations at the time of application.
 
And before anyone says "unemployment" let me stop you right there
 
What does around a 240 on USMLE Step 1 and around a 250 on USMLE Step 2 buy you in terms of Pathology programs as a DO? Ill have 12-14 weeks of Pathology exposure through rotations at the time of application.

One thing I worry about is how competitive the top programs are. Even in noncompetitive specialties the tops are tough. I think folks want pathology will also tend to have a higher step 1 toward the high end applicants. Think of your 240 like a 230 I would say.
 
One thing I worry about is how competitive the top programs are. Even in noncompetitive specialties the tops are tough. I think folks want pathology will also tend to have a higher step 1 toward the high end applicants. Think of your 240 like a 230 I would say.

I think of my 240 like a 240. If they deduct 10 pts then my respect for them is deducted by 10 pts.
 
What does around a 240 on USMLE Step 1 and around a 250 on USMLE Step 2 buy you in terms of Pathology programs as a DO? Ill have 12-14 weeks of Pathology exposure through rotations at the time of application.


Well I'm no expert here as I'm still an incoming M1, but from the data I looked at, I think you can get into pretty much any program that is not academic and research heavy. DO students who matched into pathology this year had an average COMLEX score in the 77th percentile (can't remember the exact score). No data was published about the usmle scores, but to put it into perspective, the US MDs had an average score of 233 and the IMGs an average score in the 220s, so DOs probably scored in the 220-240 range.
 
I think of my 240 like a 240. If they deduct 10 pts then my respect for them is deducted by 10 pts.

I don't think I conveyed my thoughts well. I simply said pathology at upper tier programs may have a higher average step 1 score due to applicant's interest in pathology and step 1 being a pathology heavy exam.

You will have no trouble matching though, the score thing may or may not even come into play at the highest level because as I alluded to earlier, there aren't enough candidates applying to make it competitive.
 
How important is Step 2CK to Pathology residencies if you scored well on Step 1(exam probably more relevant to the field).
 
As long as you score relatively similarly, it isn't that big of a deal. Getting a much worse score (or failing) would obviously be a huge red flag, though. If I remember correctly, some programs require your Step 2 CK score (and CS pass) before scheduling interviews and/or ranking you, also, so keep that in mind.
 
Pathology is a great field. the problem is self created. Programs train too many residents. For them it is cheap labor for grossing specimens, and doing autopsies. Plus they are federally funded as they are "teaching". That leads to too many applicants for a job, and eventually the whole field turns into a commodity. I have watched it happen over the last 15 or so years. We ourselves created a situation where everyone could take advantage and our ability to put the foot down became impossible. That has given rise to a lot of bad practices being adopted in private practice run by big labs esp GI, GU, and Derm.
Its time for ABP, CAP etc to go back to the drawing board. Chop the number of residency spots by at least 50%. Once it is done, the other issues can be tackled easily.
 
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Pathology is a great field. the problem is self created. Programs train too many residents. For them it is cheap labor for grossing specimens, and doing autopsies. Plus they are federally funded as they are "teaching". That leads to too many applicants for a job, and eventually the whole field turns into a commodity. I have watched it happen over the last 15 or so years. We ourselves created a situation where everyone could take advantage and our ability to put the foot down became impossible. That has given rise to a lot of bad practices being adopted in private practice run by big labs esp GI, GU, and Derm.
Its time for ABP, CAP etc to go back to the drawing board. Chop the number of residency spots by at least 50%. Once it is done, the other issues can be tackled easily.

Well said. Especially with so little interst among american medical students, it makes no sense to have so many training programs filled with burnouts from other specialties, imgs with no other options, and those with red flags and communication issues.
 
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Well said. Especially with so little interst among american medical students, it makes no sense to have so many training programs filled with burnouts from other specialties, imgs with no other options, and those with red flags and communication issues.

But with the upcoming shortage we need to train as many individuals, either foreign or domestic, to be pathologists regardless of their qualifications, ethics or communication skills.

In other words, business as usual.
 
I'd say this forum goes a long way in contributing to the decrease in US grads applying. It's one of the few online resources out there with practicing pathologists. Unfortunately the trolls are the loudest and discourage people from even doing a rotation. The happy people in path (the vast majority) have better things to do than troll this forum. Unfortunately people like yaah who constantly offer the reasonable contrarian opinion are few and far between. I don't blame them. It has to be exhausting.

I guess I should relish my personal job security and marketability but I just feel bad for the lack of self respect that people have for their own livelihood and whatever circumstances lead them to this level of self loathing. I also think pathologists have the most free time at a computer than any other field and this contributes to the problem.

Life isn't perfect, but path was the only field in medicine I could actually enjoy on a daily basis, I make more money per hour (40-45 hours a week) and have more vacation than most people in medicine. I have absolutely no regrets about my specialty choice. SDN was helpful for me but I had to sift through the doom and gloom 10 years ago to check the field out for myself to really figure it out what it entailed. I recommend that anyone the least bit interested should do the same.

But what I do I know, I'm just a practicing pathologist and have been a member of this forum for over a decade.
I appreciate this post. Thank you for sharing.
I joined SDN around the same time yaah and LADoc00 joined. There was quite a bit of doom and gloom then (repeated links to some stupid tripod website back in those days) but that didn't dissuade me from going into pathology.

I'm pretty happy in my job. Great opportunities to help patients and awesome lifestyle with very good pay.

I don't frequent this forum much but seems to me that the doom and gloom still persists.
 
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Doom and gloom will never go away. It's the dominant force in politics now, too (along with spite).

Doom-and-gloomers are always SO sure that their opinion is the only correct one, and that everyone who disagrees with them is (pick one) biased, ignorant, or corrupt. They jump on any evidence they can find to support their opinion, and dismiss anything contrary. You can never win an argument with a doom-and-gloomer, especially online. If you do, they just go away and are silent. Or they move the goalposts. Or they just say that the predictions that haven't come true yet are going to come true soon. And then they insult you and leave.
 
I appreciate this post. Thank you for sharing.
I joined SDN around the same time yaah and LADoc00 joined. There was quite a bit of doom and gloom then (repeated links to some stupid tripod website back in those days) but that didn't dissuade me from going into pathology.

What I always really wanted was a way to put up a counter on the front forum page, "Days since link to tripod site has been posted by using it as evidence to back up an opinion." I think it just got posted again a couple of weeks ago. The record is probably about 100 days. And that website is older than iphones and half the internet companies that everyone thinks indispensable.
 
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