2016-2017 Mayo (AZ) Medical School Application Thread

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Absolutely nothing. Disappointed-- I have no idea why as a mid-20 year old they'd assume my parents would pay for anything.

I have a scholarship at another school. Unless they match it I can't see myself shelling out the money.

Congrats to everyone who got aid! That's awesome for you :)

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Does anyone know if they only do need-based scholarships? Are there potential merit-based scholarships as well?


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Absolutely nothing. Disappointed-- I have no idea why as a mid-20 year old they'd assume my parents would pay for anything.

I have a scholarship at another school. Unless they match it I can't see myself shelling out the money.

Congrats to everyone who got aid! That's awesome for you :)

Also got nothing. I feel your pain.


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25,000 for me. Can't complain - Mayo is officially cheaper than my state school!
Cheaper this year, maybe not next. :cyclops: That's why four year renewable scholarships are preferred. Ask ur state school for a 50% renewable scholarship and see what they say!
 
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Received generous aid, but would it be reasonable to attempt to negotiate a 4 year guarantee on financial aid? I feel like that could be a $40,000-$60,000 difference across medical school. Not exactly something I want to simply take someone's word on.

Any thoughts?
 
Received generous aid, but would it be reasonable to attempt to negotiate a 4 year guarantee on financial aid? I feel like that could be a $40,000-$60,000 difference across medical school. Not exactly something I want to simply take someone's word on.

Any thoughts?
The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
 
Received generous aid, but would it be reasonable to attempt to negotiate a 4 year guarantee on financial aid? I feel like that could be a $40,000-$60,000 difference across medical school. Not exactly something I want to simply take someone's word on.

Any thoughts?
Give it a try and let us know :) But it'd be hard for the school as well because they don't know whether they will be able to secure extra funding.
 
Like they said during interview days, aid isn't going to be what it normally is. It makes sense. More students, less to go around. Each year it'll be even less if they don't raise more. 50-75% off is great, because next year it could be 25-50%.

As a current student, I've been told that aid will not change that dramatically and that the administration is committed to keeping the average debt low. Also, they are really good at raising money and Mayo has a lot of incredibly generous benefactors. I haven't found out my financial aid package for 2017-2018 yet, but if it's about the same as it was this year, even with the incoming AZ students, then I will be even more reassured.
 
Yea I understand that it's expensive, but the number seems way too big compared to the avg debt for Mayo graduates of 80k-ish.

You can definitely live off much less - budget wisely and/or get a roommate, and you won't need to take out anywhere near the max for rent/utilities
 
Absolutely nothing. Disappointed-- I have no idea why as a mid-20 year old they'd assume my parents would pay for anything.

I have a scholarship at another school. Unless they match it I can't see myself shelling out the money.

Congrats to everyone who got aid! That's awesome for you :)

This is what I am super scared off! My dad makes good money, but they contributed a max of 25% of the total COA to during undergrad which is fine I'm not complaining because I am an adult. But if when I apply to schools like mayo that only give need based aid, it would suck so much if they expect my parents to help me when I know they wont at all or minimally.

Were either of you claimed as dependents on your parent's taxes, and do either of you have a good understanding of how med schools calculate need?
 
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These financial aid post make me wonder if the waitlist is worth it. I have a full ride elsewhere (guaranteed for 4 years so long as I don't mess up academically) and I am not in a position where FAFSA will say I'm in need (despite being broke with no actual familial support). As a waitlisted applicant (and based on these posts) I can't imagine Mayo even coming close to what I would need to walk away from my full ride elsewhere. Makes me sad as Mayo was my first choice dream school.


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These financial aid post make me wonder if the waitlist is worth it. I have a full ride elsewhere (guaranteed for 4 years so long as I don't mess up academically) and I am not in a position where FAFSA will say I'm in need (despite being broke with no actual familial support). As a waitlisted applicant (and based on these posts) I can't imagine Mayo even coming close to what I would need to walk away from my full ride elsewhere. Makes me sad as Mayo was my first choice dream school.


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If Mayo is your dream school and you are concerned about the amount of your scholarship award, please don’t hesitate to contact us before accepting an appointment to a “second-best” school. In some circumstances, we may be able to review your file and determine whether an adjustment in your award is possible.
 
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Well even though you weren't explicitly told, I think it's a good and common practice to ask a school to match the financial aid from another school as long as you're serious and the schools are in similar tiers. Give it a try!
 
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Would you go full price?

Honestly...I don't know. I've been accepted two other places that have not released financial packages yet but Mayo is by far the best school out of three. I've always said that since I'll graduate from undergrad debt free, I'd try to pick a med school if it meant a top notch program but $350,000 in loan debt is a lot. I'm just so absolutely shocked.


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Honestly...I don't know. I've been accepted two other places that have not released financial packages yet but Mayo is by far the best school out of three. I've always said that since I'll graduate from undergrad debt free, I'd try to pick a med school if it meant a top notch program but $350,000 in loan debt is a lot. I'm just so absolutely shocked.


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When they calculate how much you need to live per year (not including the actual tuition), they are very generous with those calculations. IMO one does not need 35k per year. If you get roommate(s) to live with (or if you have a SO who can contribute to rent) and if you're smart about budgeting, you won't need to take out that much for living expenses. Phoenix/Scottsdale is not like NYC or SF - you can find reasonable rent especially if you're open to having roommate(s) to split costs with
 
Honestly...I don't know. I've been accepted two other places that have not released financial packages yet but Mayo is by far the best school out of three. I've always said that since I'll graduate from undergrad debt free, I'd try to pick a med school if it meant a top notch program but $350,000 in loan debt is a lot. I'm just so absolutely shocked.


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That's a hard decision and I'd definitely wait until you find out if you got any aid from the other schools. Having no undergrad debt is a great place to be and that will help even if you end up not getting aid for med school. I have a huge amount of undergrad debt, but then got a lot of aid for med school. I will still end up with a ton of debt when I graduate med school though because of my undergrad. If you have concerns about debt, I would recommend reaching out to David Dahlen who is the Director of financial aid. He is amazing and I'm so glad I had a conversation with him before deciding on Mayo.
 
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When they calculate how much you need to live per year (not including the actual tuition), they are very generous with those calculations. IMO one does not need 35k per year. If you get roommate(s) to live with (or if you have a SO who can contribute to rent) and if you're smart about budgeting, you won't need to take out that much for living expenses. Phoenix/Scottsdale is not like NYC or SF - you can find reasonable rent especially if you're open to having roommate(s) to split costs with

Do you know how Mayo calculate the need students get? What if your parents make good money but aren't going to help you at all. Can you make this known to the med schools in general and Mayo or is the only thing that matters your parents salary?

Would being claimed a dependent on your parents salary be the kiss of death for financial aid, and is being not claimed the key to getting aid?
 
Do you know how Mayo calculate the need students get? What if your parents make good money but aren't going to help you at all. Can you make this known to the med schools in general and Mayo or is the only thing that matters your parents salary?

Would being claimed a dependent on your parents salary be the kiss of death for financial aid, and is being not claimed the key to getting aid?

Most med schools calculate aid this way - based off parental tax returns. If you're married, you not only have to still include your parents finances, but also your spouse and both get considered! It doesn't even matter if you're like 35 and have kids of your own, if your parents are alive, you need to submit their info. I have heard of unusual exceptions. I know someone who got into med school whose parents had cut them off years ago when they came out. They had not had contact with their parents in years and they were able to prove this (not an easy process) and the school made an exception (this was a friend at another school though, they did not get into Mayo).

Again, this method of determining aid is not unique to Mayo. Every school I got into last year did it this way too. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if your parents claimed you as a dependent or not and it also doesn't matter whether or not they are paying anything for med school. The reasoning many schools give for adopting this method is that there is evidence that in general students whose parents have higher incomes graduate with less debt and have more means than students whose parents have low incomes. Although I think there should be situations when exceptions are made, I do think this is a practical approach that makes sense to me.
 
Most med schools calculate aid this way - based off parental tax returns. If you're married, you not only have to still include your parents finances, but also your spouse and both get considered! It doesn't even matter if you're like 35 and have kids of your own, if your parents are alive, you need to submit their info. I have heard of unusual exceptions. I know someone who got into med school whose parents had cut them off years ago when they came out. They had not had contact with their parents in years and they were able to prove this (not an easy process) and the school made an exception (this was a friend at another school though, they did not get into Mayo).

Again, this method of determining aid is not unique to Mayo. Every school I got into last year did it this way too. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if your parents claimed you as a dependent or not and it also doesn't matter whether or not they are paying anything for med school. The reasoning many schools give for adopting this method is that there is evidence that in general students whose parents have higher incomes graduate with less debt and have more means than students whose parents have low incomes. Although I think there should be situations when exceptions are made, I do think this is a practical approach that makes sense to me.

For what it's worth, I'm accepted to Mayo MN and I didn't get any aid because of how much my parents make. But, I haven't been claimed as their dependent for a couple years. So, I don't think that's the key, unfortunately!


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Thank you both for the info!
 
Any accepted people know for certain that they are not going to be attending Mayo?
 
Any accepted people know for certain that they are not going to be attending Mayo?
Not 100% yet, but it isn't looking good. Having no aid really hurts with all the hesitations I already had about Mayo AZ.
 
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What other hesitations do you have?

Which hesitations were those?


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I want to preface everything I am going to say with every medical school has their cons and a con for me personally may be a pro for you and vice versa. Picking a school is a deeply personal thing and it's ok to think about the same thing differently.

With that said, I have couple major hesitations mostly revolving around the newness of Mayo Clinic in Arizona. I'll start with the more light or neutral things bothering me and end with my biggest concern.

1. New campus = first class = figuring things out. I completely understand that it's based on Mayo in Rochester and as far as new schools go, it will be an easier transition than most, but even the most established medical schools don't have a perfect curriculum and being new will inevitably make things slightly rougher.

2. New campus = no clubs, support, etc. Now this may be a pro for you cause the first class can literally make whatever they want and be president of everything! lol. I actually had some thoughts about programs and stuff I would want to start, so this can be exciting, but, for example, having no interest groups or anything means we'll be starting everything, making those connections right away and spending valuable time that I could be spending attending these interest groups/ physician meet ups actually making them. It's just another hurdle to jump.

3. No established MD/MPH or MSPH. This is a big one for me personally. I do not want to get my MPH at ASU (and it's not even a formal agreement like many schools have) meaning I would have to find my own MPH to do, which while also not a big deal, means I have to do it myself. Moreover, since it's not integrated, transferring of units/ doing public health research/ everything that goes into making the MPH or MSPH worth it for me becomes more difficult and not as integrated. Again, this probably doesn't even apply to most of you.

4. First class ever. Now there are things that would make this transition easier, but Mayo is a class of 50 (super small for medical school) with no other classes, attached undergrad, or other graduate programs with the closest school being ASU which is 45 minutes away. A super vast majority of my friends in any graduate program (med school, dental, law, etc) have their entire social network based out of their respective schools regardless of where they are. It's hard to just make friends in the Scottsdale/Phoenix community, ESPECIALLY as a medical student who is incredibly busy. The idea of having my entire social network depend on 50 people is kind of terrifying to me lol. Once again, this is a personal problem and may not apply to you.

Now onto the more substantial topics and comparing Rochester to Arizona (I am making this comparison for a reason and I will explain at the end).

5. The research at Arizona is nothing compared to Rochester. During the interview day they were emphasizing all the growth they were going to make in the next 20 years in research and buildings and essentially making the Rochester version of Mayo in Arizona... but that doesn't apply to me at this time. The funding of research in Rochester to Arizona is something like 200m to 10-20m. It's massive.

6. What Mayo Clinic in Arizona is versus Mayo Clinic in Rochester. http://www.mayoclinic.org/documents/mc2045-pdf/doc-20078949. In that document you'll see that there are over 2,000 physicians and almost 3,000 residents, fellows, and medical students at Rochester and 460 physicians and 260 residents/fellows at Arizona (this will rise as the medical school starts). What does this mean? Less people to work with, shadow, do research with, learn from the residents, be involved in the residency programs, etc. Some may interpret a more personal and individualized experience which is great! Once again, it's a matter of perspective.

7. And most importantly we have no idea how the match will turn out. We can speculate and have discussions for 4 years and all that, but the only fact that we can 100% is that we do not know. Now if this were a 5-10 year old campus and they could publish both match lists and say "look, our students, regardless of campus, perform the same" then sold. No questions asked. But now? While I think the match will be strong, I don't KNOW it will be. Moreover, I was discussing Mayo Clinic in Arizona with my mentor who's director of a fellowship program in her department at a highly ranked academic center and I asked her bluntly how she views residents coming from Arizona, Jacksonville, and Rochester and she confirmed there is a difference in how they're seen. I can only hope it won't be the same for the medical students, but once again, this all stems from the problem that I don't know.

So there you have it. Those are my hesitations. And I think these hesitations are born out of the fact that I am lucky enough to 1) have other amazing options and 2) have an option that'll similarly set me up for a good residency at a much cheaper price. The idea of paying full tuition for everything I'm hesitant about AND for an unknown just simply does not make sense to me given the options. Now if Mayo had given me a scholarship? Completely different ball game. If it were in 10 years, different ball game. If I had family in Phoenix, if I knew I wanted a Mayo Clinic residency, etc etc. The things that would sway me towards it can totally be true for you.

But I do want to emphasize how far the name Mayo Clinic will take you and for those that have chosen it, I do not think you're making a mistake whatsoever and your situation is 100% different than mine. I just thought I may as well be honest so we can have a dialogue and see how others respond. I really did love this school and my critiques of it are not born out of resentment for the school or because the school is terrible. Quite the contrary-- it's an amazing institution and I have been blessed with the curse of options, allowing me to dissect everything about my decision. There are so many pros, such as the culture, the student wellness, the physicians, the selectives, the rotations you can do in Rochester and Jacksonville, etc etc etc.

Anyways, that was long lol. If anyone has any questions or rebuttals or whatever, post 'em. Maybe I'm 100% off base on everything.
 
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I want to preface everything I am going to say with every medical school has their cons and a con for me personally may be a pro for you and vice versa. Picking a school is a deeply personal thing and it's ok to think about the same thing differently.

With that said, I have couple major hesitations mostly revolving around the newness of Mayo Clinic in Arizona. I'll start with the more light or neutral things bothering me and end with my biggest concern.

1. New campus = first class = figuring things out. I completely understand that it's based on Mayo in Rochester and as far as new schools go, it will be an easier transition than most, but even the most established medical schools don't have a perfect curriculum and being new will inevitably make things slightly rougher.

2. New campus = no clubs, support, etc. Now this may be a pro for you cause the first class can literally make whatever they want and be president of everything! lol. I actually had some thoughts about programs and stuff I would want to start, so this can be exciting, but, for example, having no interest groups or anything means we'll be starting everything, making those connections right away and spending valuable time that I could be spending attending these interest groups/ physician meet ups actually making them. It's just another hurdle to jump.

3. No established MD/MPH or MSPH. This is a big one for me personally. I do not want to get my MPH at ASU (and it's not even a formal agreement like many schools have) meaning I would have to find my own MPH to do, which while also not a big deal, means I have to do it myself. Moreover, since it's not integrated, transferring of units/ doing public health research/ everything that goes into making the MPH or MSPH worth it for me becomes more difficult and not as integrated. Again, this probably doesn't even apply to most of you.

4. First class ever. Now there are things that would make this transition easier, but Mayo is a class of 50 (super small for medical school) with no other classes, attached undergrad, or other graduate programs with the closest school being ASU which is 45 minutes away. A super vast majority of my friends in any graduate program (med school, dental, law, etc) have their entire social network based out of their respective schools regardless of where they are. It's hard to just make friends in the Scottsdale/Phoenix community, ESPECIALLY as a medical student who is incredibly busy. The idea of having my entire social network depend on 50 people is kind of terrifying to me lol. Once again, this is a personal problem and may not apply to you.

Now onto the more substantial topics and comparing Rochester to Arizona (I am making this comparison for a reason and I will explain at the end).

5. The research at Arizona is nothing compared to Rochester. During the interview day they were emphasizing all the growth they were going to make in the next 20 years in research and buildings and essentially making the Rochester version of Mayo in Arizona... but that doesn't apply to me at this time. The funding of research in Rochester to Arizona is something like 200m to 10-20m. It's massive.

6. What Mayo Clinic in Arizona is versus Mayo Clinic in Rochester. http://www.mayoclinic.org/documents/mc2045-pdf/doc-20078949. In that document you'll see that there are over 2,000 physicians and almost 3,000 residents, fellows, and medical students at Rochester and 460 physicians and 260 residents/fellows at Arizona (this will rise as the medical school starts). What does this mean? Less people to work with, shadow, do research with, learn from the residents, be involved in the residency programs, etc. Some may interpret a more personal and individualized experience which is great! Once again, it's a matter of perspective.

7. And most importantly we have no idea how the match will turn out. We can speculate and have discussions for 4 years and all that, but the only fact that we can 100% is that we do not know. Now if this were a 5-10 year old campus and they could publish both match lists and say "look, our students, regardless of campus, perform the same" then sold. No questions asked. But now? While I think the match will be strong, I don't KNOW it will be. Moreover, I was discussing Mayo Clinic in Arizona with my mentor who's director of a fellowship program in her department at a highly ranked academic center and I asked her bluntly how she views residents coming from Arizona, Jacksonville, and Rochester and she confirmed there is a difference in how they're seen. I can only hope it won't be the same for the medical students, but once again, this all stems from the problem that I don't know.

So there you have it. Those are my hesitations. And I think these hesitations are born out of the fact that I am lucky enough to 1) have other amazing options and 2) have an option that'll similarly set me up for a good residency at a much cheaper price. The idea of paying full tuition for everything I'm hesitant about AND for an unknown just simply does not make sense to me given the options. Now if Mayo had given me a scholarship? Completely different ball game. If it were in 10 years, different ball game. If I had family in Phoenix, if I knew I wanted a Mayo Clinic residency, etc etc. The things that would sway me towards it can totally be true for you.

But I do want to emphasize how far the name Mayo Clinic will take you and for those that have chosen it, I do not think you're making a mistake whatsoever and your situation is 100% different than mine. I just thought I may as well be honest so we can have a dialogue and see how others respond. I really did love this school and my critiques of it are not born out of resentment for the school or because the school is terrible. Quite the contrary-- it's an amazing institution and I have been blessed with the curse of options, allowing me to dissect everything about my decision. There are so many pros, such as the culture, the student wellness, the physicians, the selectives, the rotations you can do in Rochester and Jacksonville, etc etc etc.

Anyways, that was long lol. If anyone has any questions or rebuttals or whatever, post 'em. Maybe I'm 100% off base on everything.
This is one of the most thought out posts I've read on SDN. You definitely have valid points. I didn't even think of number six and seven, both of which are huge.
 
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Some people think it's going to be looked at by residency programs as some new school that isn't Mayo. Personally I think that's silly.
Yeah, I agree with that. I think at most they'll ask if you went to Mayo AZ or MN.

@GrumpyGus, "asked her bluntly how she views residents coming from Arizona, Jacksonville, and Rochester and she confirmed there is a difference in how they're seen."

What does she say the difference comes from? Level of training?
 
I want to preface everything I am going to say with every medical school has their cons and a con for me personally may be a pro for you and vice versa. Picking a school is a deeply personal thing and it's ok to think about the same thing differently.

With that said, I have couple major hesitations mostly revolving around the newness of Mayo Clinic in Arizona. I'll start with the more light or neutral things bothering me and end with my biggest concern.

1. New campus = first class = figuring things out. I completely understand that it's based on Mayo in Rochester and as far as new schools go, it will be an easier transition than most, but even the most established medical schools don't have a perfect curriculum and being new will inevitably make things slightly rougher.

2. New campus = no clubs, support, etc. Now this may be a pro for you cause the first class can literally make whatever they want and be president of everything! lol. I actually had some thoughts about programs and stuff I would want to start, so this can be exciting, but, for example, having no interest groups or anything means we'll be starting everything, making those connections right away and spending valuable time that I could be spending attending these interest groups/ physician meet ups actually making them. It's just another hurdle to jump.

3. No established MD/MPH or MSPH. This is a big one for me personally. I do not want to get my MPH at ASU (and it's not even a formal agreement like many schools have) meaning I would have to find my own MPH to do, which while also not a big deal, means I have to do it myself. Moreover, since it's not integrated, transferring of units/ doing public health research/ everything that goes into making the MPH or MSPH worth it for me becomes more difficult and not as integrated. Again, this probably doesn't even apply to most of you.

4. First class ever. Now there are things that would make this transition easier, but Mayo is a class of 50 (super small for medical school) with no other classes, attached undergrad, or other graduate programs with the closest school being ASU which is 45 minutes away. A super vast majority of my friends in any graduate program (med school, dental, law, etc) have their entire social network based out of their respective schools regardless of where they are. It's hard to just make friends in the Scottsdale/Phoenix community, ESPECIALLY as a medical student who is incredibly busy. The idea of having my entire social network depend on 50 people is kind of terrifying to me lol. Once again, this is a personal problem and may not apply to you.

Now onto the more substantial topics and comparing Rochester to Arizona (I am making this comparison for a reason and I will explain at the end).

5. The research at Arizona is nothing compared to Rochester. During the interview day they were emphasizing all the growth they were going to make in the next 20 years in research and buildings and essentially making the Rochester version of Mayo in Arizona... but that doesn't apply to me at this time. The funding of research in Rochester to Arizona is something like 200m to 10-20m. It's massive.

6. What Mayo Clinic in Arizona is versus Mayo Clinic in Rochester. http://www.mayoclinic.org/documents/mc2045-pdf/doc-20078949. In that document you'll see that there are over 2,000 physicians and almost 3,000 residents, fellows, and medical students at Rochester and 460 physicians and 260 residents/fellows at Arizona (this will rise as the medical school starts). What does this mean? Less people to work with, shadow, do research with, learn from the residents, be involved in the residency programs, etc. Some may interpret a more personal and individualized experience which is great! Once again, it's a matter of perspective.

7. And most importantly we have no idea how the match will turn out. We can speculate and have discussions for 4 years and all that, but the only fact that we can 100% is that we do not know. Now if this were a 5-10 year old campus and they could publish both match lists and say "look, our students, regardless of campus, perform the same" then sold. No questions asked. But now? While I think the match will be strong, I don't KNOW it will be. Moreover, I was discussing Mayo Clinic in Arizona with my mentor who's director of a fellowship program in her department at a highly ranked academic center and I asked her bluntly how she views residents coming from Arizona, Jacksonville, and Rochester and she confirmed there is a difference in how they're seen. I can only hope it won't be the same for the medical students, but once again, this all stems from the problem that I don't know.

So there you have it. Those are my hesitations. And I think these hesitations are born out of the fact that I am lucky enough to 1) have other amazing options and 2) have an option that'll similarly set me up for a good residency at a much cheaper price. The idea of paying full tuition for everything I'm hesitant about AND for an unknown just simply does not make sense to me given the options. Now if Mayo had given me a scholarship? Completely different ball game. If it were in 10 years, different ball game. If I had family in Phoenix, if I knew I wanted a Mayo Clinic residency, etc etc. The things that would sway me towards it can totally be true for you.

But I do want to emphasize how far the name Mayo Clinic will take you and for those that have chosen it, I do not think you're making a mistake whatsoever and your situation is 100% different than mine. I just thought I may as well be honest so we can have a dialogue and see how others respond. I really did love this school and my critiques of it are not born out of resentment for the school or because the school is terrible. Quite the contrary-- it's an amazing institution and I have been blessed with the curse of options, allowing me to dissect everything about my decision. There are so many pros, such as the culture, the student wellness, the physicians, the selectives, the rotations you can do in Rochester and Jacksonville, etc etc etc.

Anyways, that was long lol. If anyone has any questions or rebuttals or whatever, post 'em. Maybe I'm 100% off base on everything.
You have valid points. I see the biggest potential issue to be "brand dilution". Mayo has a great reputation and the program in Arizona is on fertile ground to be enormously successful. How Mayo administrators prevent the perception of "big Mayo" and "little Mayo" (which my physician colleagues already talk about) is to be seen. The only way I see this is that AZs first class scores better on step 1, matches better to residencies, and pumps out higher quality research than MN. That's a lot of pressure. That being said, the best competition is yourself, right?
 
My personal reservation is with financial aid. How can scholarship aid not be guaranteed for four years?
 
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Yeah, I agree with that. I think at most they'll ask if you went to Mayo AZ or MN.

@GrumpyGus, "asked her bluntly how she views residents coming from Arizona, Jacksonville, and Rochester and she confirmed there is a difference in how they're seen."

What does she say the difference comes from? Level of training?
It's just like most everything-- subconscious thought about what's better and what's worth. It's not really a rationale thing. Rochester is the OG campus with all the shiny accolades so it'll be seen as better for those reasons.
 
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My personal reservation is with financial aid. How can scholarship aid not be guaranteed for four years?
Irregular funding and increasing number of students needing aid. They're upfront about it which is very fair of them. A lot of schools do provide guaranteed four year scholarships though.
Is financial info from both parents required?
For the fafsa, yes.
 
Alot of people seem to have forgotten that we can do our clinical rotations at the MN hospital. Those and step 1 are the only grades that actually matter for residency anyway.
 
Irregular funding and increasing number of students needing aid. They're upfront about it which is very fair of them. A lot of schools do provide guaranteed four year scholarships though.

For the fafsa, yes.

Do you have a citation for the info from both parents?
 
Do you have a citation for the info from both parents?

Lol. Don't be a dick. It's required. Citation: I got into this school and did what the financial office asked me to do.
 
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I also agree with what @GrumpyGus mentioned. The biggest factor for me is having no clubs. Sure you can start one, but how many of the 50 incoming medical students who are overwhelmed with studying (plus no upperclassmen to ask questions) would be willing to start clubs?
 
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I also agree with what @GrumpyGus mentioned. The biggest factor for me is having no clubs. Sure you can start one, but how many of the 50 incoming medical students who are overwhelmed with studying (plus no upperclassmen to ask questions) would be willing to start clubs?
Yeeeaah, it takes a bit to get clubs established, especially with small class size / no upperclassmen. Good point. For me, the biggest drawback is the distance from campus for living arrangements, not being able to walk/bike most of the months of the year since formal wear + 110 degree weather.
 
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I want to preface everything I am going to say with every medical school has their cons and a con for me personally may be a pro for you and vice versa. Picking a school is a deeply personal thing and it's ok to think about the same thing differently.

With that said, I have couple major hesitations mostly revolving around the newness of Mayo Clinic in Arizona. I'll start with the more light or neutral things bothering me and end with my biggest concern.

1. New campus = first class = figuring things out. I completely understand that it's based on Mayo in Rochester and as far as new schools go, it will be an easier transition than most, but even the most established medical schools don't have a perfect curriculum and being new will inevitably make things slightly rougher.

2. New campus = no clubs, support, etc. Now this may be a pro for you cause the first class can literally make whatever they want and be president of everything! lol. I actually had some thoughts about programs and stuff I would want to start, so this can be exciting, but, for example, having no interest groups or anything means we'll be starting everything, making those connections right away and spending valuable time that I could be spending attending these interest groups/ physician meet ups actually making them. It's just another hurdle to jump.

3. No established MD/MPH or MSPH. This is a big one for me personally. I do not want to get my MPH at ASU (and it's not even a formal agreement like many schools have) meaning I would have to find my own MPH to do, which while also not a big deal, means I have to do it myself. Moreover, since it's not integrated, transferring of units/ doing public health research/ everything that goes into making the MPH or MSPH worth it for me becomes more difficult and not as integrated. Again, this probably doesn't even apply to most of you.

4. First class ever. Now there are things that would make this transition easier, but Mayo is a class of 50 (super small for medical school) with no other classes, attached undergrad, or other graduate programs with the closest school being ASU which is 45 minutes away. A super vast majority of my friends in any graduate program (med school, dental, law, etc) have their entire social network based out of their respective schools regardless of where they are. It's hard to just make friends in the Scottsdale/Phoenix community, ESPECIALLY as a medical student who is incredibly busy. The idea of having my entire social network depend on 50 people is kind of terrifying to me lol. Once again, this is a personal problem and may not apply to you.

Now onto the more substantial topics and comparing Rochester to Arizona (I am making this comparison for a reason and I will explain at the end).

5. The research at Arizona is nothing compared to Rochester. During the interview day they were emphasizing all the growth they were going to make in the next 20 years in research and buildings and essentially making the Rochester version of Mayo in Arizona... but that doesn't apply to me at this time. The funding of research in Rochester to Arizona is something like 200m to 10-20m. It's massive.

6. What Mayo Clinic in Arizona is versus Mayo Clinic in Rochester. http://www.mayoclinic.org/documents/mc2045-pdf/doc-20078949. In that document you'll see that there are over 2,000 physicians and almost 3,000 residents, fellows, and medical students at Rochester and 460 physicians and 260 residents/fellows at Arizona (this will rise as the medical school starts). What does this mean? Less people to work with, shadow, do research with, learn from the residents, be involved in the residency programs, etc. Some may interpret a more personal and individualized experience which is great! Once again, it's a matter of perspective.

7. And most importantly we have no idea how the match will turn out. We can speculate and have discussions for 4 years and all that, but the only fact that we can 100% is that we do not know. Now if this were a 5-10 year old campus and they could publish both match lists and say "look, our students, regardless of campus, perform the same" then sold. No questions asked. But now? While I think the match will be strong, I don't KNOW it will be. Moreover, I was discussing Mayo Clinic in Arizona with my mentor who's director of a fellowship program in her department at a highly ranked academic center and I asked her bluntly how she views residents coming from Arizona, Jacksonville, and Rochester and she confirmed there is a difference in how they're seen. I can only hope it won't be the same for the medical students, but once again, this all stems from the problem that I don't know.

So there you have it. Those are my hesitations. And I think these hesitations are born out of the fact that I am lucky enough to 1) have other amazing options and 2) have an option that'll similarly set me up for a good residency at a much cheaper price. The idea of paying full tuition for everything I'm hesitant about AND for an unknown just simply does not make sense to me given the options. Now if Mayo had given me a scholarship? Completely different ball game. If it were in 10 years, different ball game. If I had family in Phoenix, if I knew I wanted a Mayo Clinic residency, etc etc. The things that would sway me towards it can totally be true for you.

But I do want to emphasize how far the name Mayo Clinic will take you and for those that have chosen it, I do not think you're making a mistake whatsoever and your situation is 100% different than mine. I just thought I may as well be honest so we can have a dialogue and see how others respond. I really did love this school and my critiques of it are not born out of resentment for the school or because the school is terrible. Quite the contrary-- it's an amazing institution and I have been blessed with the curse of options, allowing me to dissect everything about my decision. There are so many pros, such as the culture, the student wellness, the physicians, the selectives, the rotations you can do in Rochester and Jacksonville, etc etc etc.

Anyways, that was long lol. If anyone has any questions or rebuttals or whatever, post 'em. Maybe I'm 100% off base on everything.


Extremely well spoken. I didn't consider many of these factors originally but your concern makes sense to me. It would be a difficult decision to make if the cost is the same at an established school that has a relatively decent residency placement and the new, untested Mayo campus in Arizona. If you're looking at upper mid/top tier schools I think it's a no-brainer. Even with the ability to complete rotations at other sites, no one knows if they will strongly recommend/make you do a certain number at the local site. Not to mention that most of the faculty will have zero to very little teaching experience. I think it is a very difficult argument to make that the Rochester and Scottsdale campuses are equal. For all intents and purposes, this is a satellite school (the Mayo Clinic will forever be tied to its' original and much larger site, Rochester, Minnesota... even though there are smaller branches elsewhere)
 
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@GrumpyGus thanks for your well thought out post. I agree with alot of what you said, and I think it may be helpful for me to post some reasons that I am actually very excited about Mayo AZ. To be clear, I'm like 90% sure I'm going here. Basically the only way I would go would be a massive scholarship, honestly probably a full scholarship, from elsewhere.

The Mayo Culture - Regardless of what future potential PDs may think for our residency prospects, we are still training under the Mayo philosophy. Presumably if you got accepted here you had decent answers on your secondary and in your interview, so you should understand why this is important. We will train as apprentices in almost always 1 on 1 settings. We will have access to the "Mayo way" of doing things which some people roll their eyes at but it does actually produce the best outcomes in the US. We can do rotations at the original MN Mayo clinic and learn in AZ from transplanted faculty. Maybe some external people will think AZ students didn't "really" go to Mayo, but internally we WILL get the unique training Mayo has always offered.

Arizona - This is obviously personal preference, but I LOVE the Phoenix/Scottsdale area. The scenery is beautiful, the restaurant/brewery/coffee/art scenes are fantastic, and the city is really growing and becoming a true metropolitan center. They have 4 sports teams, Mexican/Latino culture, live music, and easy access to camping, hiking, skiing (yes really) and tons of national and state parks. For me, a campus in Mayo has solved the biggest problem with Mayo - that no one wants to go live in Rochester, MN and only see rich white patients. Look up some of the old "Mayo vs. X, Y, Z" topics on SDN. They are almost universally "I love Mayo but I also got into this place that's not in a tundra". Through Mayo AZ, we get the training and the awesome curriculum but in a cool place to live. Yeah, in July you will sweat your ass off, but think how fun it will be to post pics of your pool and cacti while your friends out east are buried under a pile of snow and 20 degree weather.

Research - Gus is correct. If basic science is your jam, Mayo AZ might not be for you. That being said, if basic science is your jam, Mayo MN probably isnt for you either compared to the other places alot of us probably got into (they have it of course, buts it's got nothing on Harvard, Columbia, Case, Pitt, etc). However, if you are like me and CLINICAL research is your thing, I think Mayo AZ is actually a perfect situation. The busy clinicians of the AZ Mayo Clinic and Maricopa Med Center suddenly have 50 eager, intelligent medical students to help them out. Regardless of whatever you have seen about grants and whatnot, I refuse to believe that these people don't have projects they need help with. Furthermore, Mayo MN is a clinical research powerhouse (always has been) and we live in 2017 with phones, emails, video chat, etc. If you are a motivated researcher, you will have ample opportunity here (it is a required piece of the curriculum after all). Regarding basic science - ASU is actually quite strong there and has plenty of grant funding. If you are pretentious about -where- you research maybe this isn't for you, but if you are just interested in getting on a cool project I think you'll be able to do so.

Science of Healthcare Delivery - Again, not for everyone, and some people probably don't particularly care, but this is a unique program that will gear medical students to be 21st century doctors. Helath system/QI work is THE hot topic right now, and if you are at all interested in that stuff this is pretty awesome. This is not offered at the MN campus (my interviewer told me they intend for this to be the one difference between campuses). Personally I will definitely look into the degree option if I end up here.

Maricopa Medical Center - Related to what I said about the location, I've always thought one weakness of Mayo Med School is a lack of racial and socioeconomic diversity in its patient population. I assure you this will NOT be an issue with access to the public hospital on the Mexican border.

The new campus - Definitely a personal preference thing here, but I am very excited by the new campus. We will be the first people to ever touch the anatomy lab and sim center, and we will be instrumental in forming the culture of the new campus. Certainly not for everyone, but I'm into this.



Anyway, these are just my thoughts. Not meant to argue with ya @GrumpyGus, just another view.


Please excuse any typos, I am currently traveling and writing from my phone.
 
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Lol. Don't be a dick. It's required. Citation: I got into this school and did what the financial office asked me to do.

Didn't mean for it to be flippant, however the fafsa email they sent out just said "parental information" with out a clearly defined policy, nor could I find that out on the website either. I come from a broken home and my custodial parent makes less than 1/2 of what my distant alcoholic parent does.....I'm really interested in this issue.
 
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Didn't mean for it to be flippant, however the fafsa email they sent out just said "parental information" with out a clearly defined policy, nor could I find that out on the website either. I come from a broken home and my custodial parent makes less than 1/2 of what my distant alcoholic parent does.....I'm really interested in this issue.

Contact Mayo Clinic. Easy solution.

@GrumpyGus thanks for your well thought out post. I agree with alot of what you said, and I think it may be helpful for me to post some reasons that I am actually very excited about Mayo AZ. To be clear, I'm like 90% sure I'm going here with

The Mayo Culture - Regardless of what future potential PDs may think for our residency prospects, we are still training under the Mayo philosophy. Presumably if you got accepted here you have decent answers on your secondary and in your interview, so you should understand why this is important. We will train as apprentices in almost always 1 on 1 settings. We will have access to the "Mayo way" of doing things which some people roll their eyes at but it does actually produce the best outcomes in the US. We can do rotations at the original MN Mayo clinic and learn in AZ from transplanted faculty. Maybe some external people will think AZ students didn't "really" go to Mayo, but internally we WILL get the unique training Mayo has always offered.

Arizona - This is obviously personal preference, but I LOVE the Phoenix/Scottsdale area. The scenery is beautiful, the restaurant/brewery/coffee/art scenes are fantastic, and the city is really growing and becoming a true metropolitan center. They have 4 sports teams, Mexican/Latino culture, live music, and easy access to camping, hiking, skiing (yes really) and tons of national and state parks. For me, a campus in Mayo has solved the biggest problem with Mayo - that no one wants to go live in Rochester, MN and only see rich white patients. Look up some of the old "Mayo vs. X, Y, Z" topics on SDN. They are almost universally "I love Mayo but I also got into this place that's not in a tundra". Through Mayo AZ, we get the training and the awesome curriculum but in a cool place to live. Yeah, in July you will sweat your ass off, but think how fun it will be to post pics of your pool and cacti while your friends out east are buried under a pile of snow and 20 degree weather.

Research - Gus is correct. If basic science is your jam, Mayo AZ might not be for you. That being said, if basic science is your jam, Mayo MN probably isnt for you either compared to the other places alot of us probably got into (they have it of course, buts it's got nothing on Harvard, Columbia, Case, Pitt, etc). However, if you are like me and CLINICAL, research is your thing, I think Mayo AZ is actually a perfect situation. The busy clinicians of the AZ Mayo Clinic and Maricopa Med Center suddenly have 50 eager, intelligent medical students to help them out. Regardless of whatever you have seen about grants and whatnot, I refuse to believe that these people don't have projects they need help with. Furthermore, Mayo MN is a clinical research powerhouse (always has been) and we live in 2017 with phones, emails, video chat, etc. If you are a motivated researcher, you will have ample opportunity here (it is a required piece of the curriculum after all). Regarding basic science - ASU is actually quite strong there and has plenty of grant funding. If you are pretentious about -where- you research maybe this isn't for you, but if you are jsut interested in getting on a cool project I think you'll be able to do so.

Science of Healthcare Delivery - Again, not for everyone, and some people probably don't particularly care, but this is a unique program that will gear medical students to be 21st century doctors. Helath system/QI work is THE hot topic right now, and if you are at all interested in that stuff this is pretty awesome. This is not offered at the MN campus (my interviewer told me they intend for this to be the one difference between campuses). Personally I will definitely look into the degree option if I end up here.

Maricopa Medical Center - Related to what I said about the location, I've always thought one weakness of Mayo Med School is a lack of racial and socioeconomic diversity in its patient population. I assure you this will NOT be an issue with access to the public hospital on the Mexican border.

The new campus - Definitely a personal preference thing here, but I am very excited by the new campus. We will be the first people to ever touch the anatomy lab and sim center, and we will be instrumental in forming the culture of the new campus. Certainly not for everyone, but I'm into this.



Anyway, these are just my thoughts. Not meant to argue with ya @GrumpyGus, just another view.


Please excuse any typos, I am currently traveling and writing from my phone.
I agree with everything you said! Good write up
 
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