2015-2016 Ophthalmology Ranking Thread

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epiretinalmembrane

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Figured we should start one of these so we can get advice and discuss programs in one place.

Need some advice on organizing my rank list by tier for best overall clinical training factoring in fellowship match. Don't care about location or prestige.

Texas Tech
St. Louis University
University of Alabama
University of Louisville
Boston University
University of Arkansas
UT San Antonio
University of Utah
University of Missouri - Kansas City
UT Memphis
Indiana University
UT Houston
Drexel

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Would also appreciate some advice based on best overall clinical training only:

Wake forest
University of Florida
University of Arkansas
Wash U
University of North Carolina
UT San Antonio
University of Virginia
 
Figured we should start one of these so we can get advice and discuss programs in one place.

Need some advice on organizing my rank list by tier for best overall clinical training factoring in fellowship match. Don't care about location or prestige.

Texas Tech
St. Louis University
University of Alabama
University of Louisville
Boston University
University of Arkansas
UT San Antonio
University of Utah
University of Missouri - Kansas City
UT Memphis
Indiana University
UT Houston
Drexel

Whatever you do, put Utah at the top. It has everything you want and more. You'd be doing yourself a huge favor to match there.
 
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Great thread!
I Would appreciate help with ranking these programs based on training:

VCU
Temple
UT San Antonio
Henry Ford
U Arizona
Columbia
Scheie Eye
Mount Sinai
Wake Forest
 
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Figured we should start one of these so we can get advice and discuss programs in one place.

Need some advice on organizing my rank list by tier for best overall clinical training factoring in fellowship match. Don't care about location or prestige.

Texas Tech
St. Louis University
University of Alabama
University of Louisville
Boston University
University of Arkansas
UT San Antonio
University of Utah
University of Missouri - Kansas City
UT Memphis
Indiana University
UT Houston
Drexel

I'm too lazy to rank all these but Moran Eye is incredible. Happy happy residents. It's incredible:
I would put Drexel last. In terms of south UAB then UT San Antonio and I'm spent good luck
 
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Great thread!
I Would appreciate help with ranking these programs based on training:

VCU
Temple
UT San Antonio
Henry Ford
U Arizona
Columbia
Scheie Eye

Arizona
San Antonio

Stand out as strong clinical training to prepare you well for fellowship and comprehensive. I'm unsure about Henry Ford training - private vs public? Haven't heard a lot so I'm not the best to ask.

I don't know much about penn or Columbia clinical training. My experience with New York and philly was that numbers weren't so high. But obviously penn has prestige factor.

Good luck
 
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Would love to hear anyone's thoughts on ranking these programs!

Arkansas
UTSW
UT Houston
Georgetown
University of Mississippi
LSU-NO
USC/Palmetto
Texas Tech
LSU-Shreveport
Stony Brook
Nassau
 
Would love to hear anyone's thoughts on ranking these programs!

Arkansas
UTSW
UT Houston
Georgetown
University of Mississippi
LSU-NO
USC/Palmetto
Texas Tech
LSU-Shreveport
Stony Brook
Nassau

As a former resident of the University of Mississippi, I am biased but consider it highly in your rankings. The new chairman is fantastic and resident-centric (she's the former program director). Biggest strength overall is is hands down surgery. You graduate with at least double of your minimum numbers of everything, and you get exposure to everything surgically. Biggest field strength would be retina for sure (residents will have to do several core vitrectomies as primary, even if you don't want to do primary - I finished with >70 and did a few RD primaries as well). Neuro-ophth is pretty strong too though it depends on how long Dr. Corbett stays there (his name is cited all over the neuro-ophth BSCS book!). Cornea training isn't bad, despite only once plastics faculty there you also get a ton of plastics as primary. You get so many globes as a PGY 3 that after a certain point you just want to give them to someone else. Of course, you get more than enough cataracts. You'll get 150 guaranteed but you will get more if you're more aggressive.

In addition, the intern year is rolled into the program and you actually start doing ophtho rotations early as an intern - you basically get a head start, and you're an acting ophthalmology resident in February even as an intern. You get sent to all the review courses (Houston course, San Antonio course) for OKAP review. Research is certainly not required but highly encouraged. Good exposure and teachings of running a private practice as well.

One last thing that people don't often talk about during interviews but you appreciate when you're through residency is how the program controls most of their budget and priorities. That means you have newer equipment and better tech help. In fact, the scrub techs are your same clinic techs, and they never scrub for any other surgeries. For instance, each service has 2-3 scrub techs dedicated to just that service in ophthalmology, and your circulators only do eye cases. I never appreciated that until now at a different academic environment....
 
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Really like this idea as I'm at a loss. Here's my list. Looking for the combination of best clinical training/fellowship match:

Rochester
Albert Einstein
Baylor
Maryland
Columbia
MEEI
NYEE
Colorado
NYU
Duke
Yale
DMEI
Wills
NYMC
Mount Sinai
 
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Really like this idea as I'm at a loss. Here's my list. Looking for the combination of best clinical training/fellowship match:

Rochester
Albert Einstein
Baylor
Maryland
Columbia
MEEI
NYEE
Colorado
NYU
Duke
Yale
DMEI
Wills
NYMC
Mount Sinai
I would stay away from NYC programs. Duke, Wills, DMEI, Baylor would be my top 4 picks, not in any specific order.
 
I would stay away from NYC programs. Duke, Wills, DMEI, Baylor would be my top 4 picks, not in any specific order.


I would rank the top four in the following way:

1) Duke = Wills
- the surgical numbers at duke are strong and you have access to a top spread of sub-sub specialists.
- Wills has a huge family like feel. Great training and mentorship. I remember during my rotation professors would pull me over or I could stop anyone who was free and discuss some questions I had regarding a topic.

I think if you are deciding between duke and wills you are already in a good spot, and I would choose the place you could see yourself collaborating with in the future.

2) DMEI , Baylor
- location can be a determining factor here. But again strong clinical training programs won access to some top notch research.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hi all,
I would love your input for these:

Vanderbilt
UAB
NYEE
DMEI
OSU
Texas Tech
Rutgers/NJ

Thanks so much!
 
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i've got some ranking questions too, but i wonder, would it be more effective to update the compendium with more recent info?
 
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Really like this idea as I'm at a loss. Here's my list. Looking for the combination of best clinical training/fellowship match:

Rochester
Albert Einstein
Baylor
Maryland
Columbia
MEEI
NYEE
Colorado
NYU
Duke
Yale
DMEI
Wills
NYMC
Mount Sinai

My own subjective ranking of programs based on clinical training and location would be something like this:

Wills (seems like you're probably from the northeast?)
Duke
DMEI vs Baylor
Colorado
MEEI
NYEE
Columbia vs NYU vs Sinai
Rochester vs Maryland vs Albert Einstein
Yale
 
My own subjective ranking of programs based on clinical training and location would be something like this:

Wills (seems like you're probably from the northeast?)
Duke
DMEI vs Baylor
Colorado
MEEI
NYEE
Columbia vs NYU vs Sinai
Rochester vs Maryland vs Albert Einstein
Yale


Interesting, thanks for the input. Just curious - why NYEE above the other NYC programs? And why MEEI so "low"?
 
Really like this idea as I'm at a loss. Here's my list. Looking for the combination of best clinical training/fellowship match:

Rochester
Albert Einstein
Baylor
Maryland
Columbia
MEEI
NYEE
Colorado
NYU
Duke
Yale
DMEI
Wills
NYMC
Mount Sinai

My thoughts are:
Wills
MEEI
Duke vs Baylor vs DMEI
Colorado vs NYEE vs Columbia
Nyu vs Maryland
Rest based on location

I am also looking for some guidance, looking for Overall training, happiness and Research/Academic career placement

DMEI
Wilmer
UCLA
Casey
NYU
Columbia
MEEI
UCSF
 
My thoughts are:
Wills
MEEI
Duke vs Baylor vs DMEI
Colorado vs NYEE vs Columbia
Nyu vs Maryland
Rest based on location

I am also looking for some guidance, looking for Overall training, happiness and Research/Academic career placement

DMEI
Wilmer
UCLA
Casey
NYU
Columbia
MEEI
UCSF


Thanks for your input. Here are my thoughts about your list (obviously very subjective):
Wilmer
UCLA vs UCSF vs MEEI
DMEI
Columbia
Casey
NYU
 
Thanks for your input. Here are my thoughts about your list (obviously very subjective):
Wilmer
UCLA vs UCSF vs MEEI
DMEI
Columbia
Casey
NYU

My take on these programs

DMEI vs. UCSF vs Casey all on par - strong clinical with good academic feel

MEEI vs UCLA for that higher up prestige/academic. Unclear whether or not clinical training can beat out the 3 above

In a whole other league...
NYU
Columbia
 
Would really appreciate some advice based on best overall clinical training only:

Wake forest
University of Florida
University of Arkansas
Wash U
University of North Carolina
UT San Antonio
University of Virginia
 
any thoughts on the south? surgical training, atmosphere, fellowships

UTSW
UT Galveston
Texas Tech
Tulane
LSU/Ochsner
UF Jacksonville
USF Tampa
 
My take on these programs

DMEI vs. UCSF vs Casey all on par - strong clinical with good academic feel

MEEI vs UCLA for that higher up prestige/academic. Unclear whether or not clinical training can beat out the 3 above

In a whole other league...
NYU
Columbia

I agree. In fact, I think an argument could be made that the clinical experience at MEEI is not what one would expect given its reputation and prestige. At least this is what I have heard... I am NOT speaking from personal experience.

I loved DMEI, UCSF, and Casey. Out of the three, I felt UCSF had the better clinical exposure. Having the VA and a county hospital was a big plus in my opinion. I went to school at OHSU and so I got to know Casey quite well. It's a stellar program with fantastic residents and faculty. Some of the happiest and nicest people you will meet and Portland is a wonderful place to live. I do think that the program tends to be a little more on the hand-holdy side of the autonomy spectrum, but I do not think the training suffers from that. DMEI's focus on international work and outreach is probably second only to Utah and the residents were some of the most impressive I met in terms of their knowledge... they were baller.

I liked Wilmer a lot as well, but I just didn't get the same happy/friendly vibe as I did from the other programs, which was important to me. Of course, it's hard not to want to rank them number one given the name and the prestige, but in the end it all comes down to what your priorities are. Given your options getting good training is not likely to be an issue.
 
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I asked my mentor to email my number #1 choice telling them that I am ranking them #1. I have been thinking about it and I want to rank another program as my #1. What is the best approach?
I am sick of this game.
 
I asked my mentor to email my number #1 choice telling them that I am ranking them #1. I have been thinking about it and I want to rank another program as my #1. What is the best approach?
I am sick of this game.

While I don't think it'll hurt, I don't think telling a program you are ranking them number one makes much (if any) difference. Don't stress about it too much.
 
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While I don't think it'll hurt, I don't think telling a program you are ranking them number one makes much (if any) difference. Don't stress about it too much.
I am concerned about my mentor relationship with them. He already told them I am ranking them #1. If they rank me #1 and I don't end up matching there, this would mean that somebody lied.
 
I am concerned about my mentor relationship with them. He already told them I am ranking them #1. If they rank me #1 and I don't end up matching there, this would mean that somebody lied.

I think this all depends on how confident you are that you will match with that program and how strong your mentors relationship is with that program as well.
 
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I am concerned about my mentor relationship with them. He already told them I am ranking them #1. If they rank me #1 and I don't end up matching there, this would mean that somebody lied.

What's done is done... How mad will he be? Does he know people there personally? Decide if telling him you changed your mind will hurt your relationship with him. Honesty is the best policy with a mentor:.. But if he knows people there personally and made a phone call to a friend don't expect him to be so happy..

Everyone plays games even the program's so most of the fine this doesn't matter
 
I asked my mentor to email my number #1 choice telling them that I am ranking them #1. I have been thinking about it and I want to rank another program as my #1. What is the best approach?
I am sick of this game.


You should be honest and let the program know if you are no longer ranking them number 1. If they find out you ranked another program first you will hurt all future Med students from your program applying to that program. It will also make your mentor look bad. These things actually are taken very seriously. Just be honest and tell them you changed your mind.
 
You should be honest and let the program know if you are no longer ranking them number 1. If they find out you ranked another program first you will hurt all future Med students from your program applying to that program. It will also make your mentor look bad. These things actually are taken very seriously. Just be honest and tell them you changed your mind.
That's my plan. I am going to be honest with my mentor and go from there.
 
You should be honest and let the program know if you are no longer ranking them number 1. If they find out you ranked another program first you will hurt all future Med students from your program applying to that program. It will also make your mentor look bad. These things actually are taken very seriously. Just be honest and tell them you changed your mind.

Be honest with your mentor but get his advice about the program. Their rank list is most likely made already unless ur mentor has super clout... Which is rare...

Telling the program you changed ur mind looks stupid and bad. I would just tell your mentor. And from that gauge how much he invested by calling or emailing for you....
 
Be honest with your mentor but get his advice about the program. Their rank list is most likely made already unless ur mentor has super clout... Which is rare...

Telling the program you changed ur mind looks stupid and bad. I would just tell your mentor. And from that gauge how much he invested by calling or emailing for you....
That is what I am planning to do exactly. Thank you for the advice.
It was not intentional and I think people change their mind regarding the rank list. The training is great at that program but I realized that I might be happier at another program.
 
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Any advice regarding these 5?

Colorado
Maryland
UT Houston
Montefiore
Rutgers

On a semi-related note, do you guys know anything about matching into Cornea from these places?
 
Rutgers vs. Upenn?
I like retina and academics, but NJ is a better location for personal reasons. Thoughts?
 
Hey guys - Would love some help with my list. Location not an issue. Most likely doing a fellowship (unsure 0f specialty) and then most likely private practice but haven't ruled out academic career. Things that are important to me are: quality of clinical training, congenial work environment, decent fellowship match.

Case Western
Cincinnati
Georgetown
Henry Ford
IEEI
Indiana
Kresge
Ohio State
Tufts
UChicago
UTSW
WashU

Thanks!
 
Rutgers vs. Upenn?
I like retina and academics, but NJ is a better location for personal reasons. Thoughts?

Scheie usually has better retina fellowship placement. Depends on how well you do during residency though. If you're miserable in Philly and don't do well, you won't match well.
 
That is what I am planning to do exactly. Thank you for the advice.
It was not intentional and I think people change their mind regarding the rank list. The training is great at that program but I realized that I might be happier at another program.

One of my (and most attendings') pet peeves. If you commit to a program, you should stick to it because it makes us look bad. I agree with the above that what's done is done, and that you definitely need to let your mentor know (I wouldn't contact the program directly unless you contacted them also), so that they can talk to the program again. It ideally shouldn't affect how the programs rank you, and it should be fine from your standpoint but it is not for relations. For future applicants, this is why it's better not to 'play the game' unless you're 120% sure and go all-in. If you must, my recommendation is to wait until you finish all the interviews.
 
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Can't go wrong with any of the programs listed below if you do well during residency.
I think they will all provide the resources needed for a strong resident to excel and pursue their goals.
I would rank based on specific subspecialty interests, location, gut feeling, etc.

My thoughts are:

I am also looking for some guidance, looking for Overall training, happiness and Research/Academic career placement

DMEI
Wilmer
UCLA
Casey
NYU
Columbia
MEEI
UCSF
 
Is it nuts to not rank a place like Bascom number 1? I've been really interested in a handful of middle tier, strong surgical/clinical programs that I can envision myself at and have felt to possibly rank them higher than Bascom. My interests are likely comprehensive ophtho and I'm nearly certain I won't enter academics or research. Not to suggest I'd ever actually match at Bascom even if it were my #1 but I must say it nags at you to rank it #1 just due to status alone. I am trying to be true to gut feelings that I may not be the best fit there?? Not really sure. Sage advice from residents/attendings welcome.
 
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Is it nuts to not rank a place like Bascom number 1? I've been really interested in a handful of middle tier, strong surgical/clinical programs that I can envision myself at and have felt to possibly rank them higher than Bascom. My interests are likely comprehensive ophtho and I'm nearly certain I won't enter academics or research. Not to suggest I'd ever actually match at Bascom even if it were my #1 but I must say it nags at you to rank it #1 just due to status alone. I am trying to be true to gut feelings that I may not be the best fit there?? Not really sure. Sage advice from residents/attendings welcome.

You should rank how you want, do what you feel. I think it's not for everyone. I ranked another middle tier program above them for personal reasons and for fit. Realistically I probably had no chance of matching there, but I also think I would have been overwhelmed by the sheer work of Bascom. I don't know if that's good or bad, just different. I do think that though you are thrown into it at Bascom the support system is excellent and the upper levels and fellows are incredible at teaching. They seem to be well oiled machine.

A few things which you probably already know...Bascom is a serious door opener and the training is great. I got the impression they do a lot of procedures in every subspecialty. I've noticed that some of the average middle tier programs have domains or weaknesses when it comes to that. Like they wish they had more of XYZ. Their didactic and lectures are excellent and their PD really cares about their well-being. Though 1st year seems super challenging, it gets way better from there and everyone seemed to be happily surviving.

If you end up doing comprehensive with no fellowship I can't imagine you wouldn't be prepared by Bascom. I've also noticed that many people want comprehensive and still do 1 year fellowship for job opportunities and a little extra. It seems after fellowship many of the Bascom grads are in private practice. So I don't see how it could hurt you if you wanna do comprehensive... Both for training quality and getting jobs.

But I do understand what it means to feel you fit somewhere. That part is all you. If you break it down Part of it is personality, some state of mind, also adaptability and where you are in your life. It's ok to have different priorities than others. I know people who went through with kids, while many are single. But they also have their life outside of residency and didn't need to have social time with residents. If I put myself in the spotlight...I brought my significant other to residency to a place neither of us had ever been. And we've done whatever we have to though residency with a committed relationship takes sacrifice and hard work. I've moved all over the country and would have gone anywhere for residency. However, I met many people who are terrified of leaving their region for one reason or another. Or who have very specific needs. I have met others who are miserable in certain places and never anticipated it, causing them distress. It's all legitimate, but everyone is different. I could seriously talk for hours on scenarios like this, but I think I've made my point.... It's about you...

Ultimately it's your choice and you know yourself best. Trust yourself. If you feel you will be unhappy at Bascom or you didn't like the vibe then don't rank them #1. People have a habit of perseverating on their rank list and sometimes use it to fuel unhappiness in their program... Ie: "if I had thought this through I'd be at that other program instead"... That is obviously an unknown, but people love to wallow in that fashion, so rank how you want with no regrets.
 
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Can anyone comment on what it is like to live in Detroit? I'm definitely on the young side and am single and not interested at all in getting married/starting a family just yet :shifty: I'm trying not to let location play a huge role in my decision-making process but I feel like choosing a larger city such as Chicago might be a letter fit for me life-wise. Please sell me on Detroit! :clap:
 
I am having a hard time deciding which is a stronger program Henry Ford vs UT San Antonio and also U Arizona vs Temple?
I appreciate the help.
 
You should rank how you want, do what you feel. I think it's not for everyone. I ranked another middle tier program above them for personal reasons and for fit. Realistically I probably had no chance of matching there, but I also think I would have been overwhelmed by the sheer work of Bascom. I don't know if that's good or bad, just different. I do think that though you are thrown into it at Bascom the support system is excellent and the upper levels and fellows are incredible at teaching. They seem to be well oiled machine.

A few things which you probably already know...Bascom is a serious door opener and the training is great. I got the impression they do a lot of procedures in every subspecialty. I've noticed that some of the average middle tier programs have domains or weaknesses when it comes to that. Like they wish they had more of XYZ. Their didactic and lectures are excellent and their PD really cares about their well-being. Though 1st year seems super challenging, it gets way better from there and everyone seemed to be happily surviving.

If you end up doing comprehensive with no fellowship I can't imagine you wouldn't be prepared by Bascom. I've also noticed that many people want comprehensive and still do 1 year fellowship for job opportunities and a little extra. It seems after fellowship many of the Bascom grads are in private practice. So I don't see how it could hurt you if you wanna do comprehensive... Both for training quality and getting jobs.

But I do understand what it means to feel you fit somewhere. That part is all you. If you break it down Part of it is personality, some state of mind, also adaptability and where you are in your life. It's ok to have different priorities than others. I know people who went through with kids, while many are single. But they also have their life outside of residency and didn't need to have social time with residents. If I put myself in the spotlight...I brought my significant other to residency to a place neither of us had ever been. And we've done whatever we have to though residency with a committed relationship takes sacrifice and hard work. I've moved all over the country and would have gone anywhere for residency. However, I met many people who are terrified of leaving their region for one reason or another. Or who have very specific needs. I have met others who are miserable in certain places and never anticipated it, causing them distress. It's all legitimate, but everyone is different. I could seriously talk for hours on scenarios like this, but I think I've made my point.... It's about you...

Ultimately it's your choice and you know yourself best. Trust yourself. If you feel you will be unhappy at Bascom or you didn't like the vibe then don't rank them #1. People have a habit of perseverating on their rank list and sometimes use it to fuel unhappiness in their program... Ie: "if I had thought this through I'd be at that other program instead"... That is obviously an unknown, but people love to wallow in that fashion, so rank how you want with no regrets.

Thank you for an in-depth post on this. Really appreciated.
 
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A more general ranking question or two for everyone: does having fellows hurt or help? I heard this spun at each place depending on if they had fellows or not. "No fellows to steal your cases" vs. having the benefit of fellowship in house.

Also, front loaded call vs. primary call for 2 years. I heard this spun both ways. Which is truly more of a grind?
 
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A more general ranking question or two for everyone: does having fellows hurt or help? I heard this spun at each place depending on if they had fellows or not. "No fellows to steal your cases" vs. having the benefit of fellowship in house.

Also, front loaded call vs. primary call for 2 years. I heard this spun both ways. Which is truly more of a grind?

1) depends how the fellows affect the residency. For example at some programs you get primary core vitrectomy because there are no retina fellows. While at other programs you get none because of retina fellows. Does that matter? I don't know... You will probably do lots of core vitrectomies in a retina fellowship....
I think if people are actually whining about fellows taking their cases then you should be concerned.

2) I think front loaded is better because 2nd year is something amazing to look forward to and you can study more for okaps. But both have their benefitS I suppose. I don't think it makes a huge difference in the end.
 
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I am having a hard time deciding which is a stronger program Henry Ford vs UT San Antonio and also U Arizona vs Temple?
I appreciate the help.

Bump! Also interested in (some of) these programs.
 
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