2015-2016 Integrated Vascular Surgery Match

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Anyone know if there is a reception or dinner the night before the Methodist interview?

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I created an editable spreadsheet for the match that people can fill in once people know where they are going for residency. I took the idea from urology and modified it. Let me know of any changes you think of (or feel free to go ahead and make them yourself). It is open for anyone with the link to view and edit.

http://tinyurl.com/zvuq363
 
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I created an editable spreadsheet for the match that people can fill in once people know where they are going for residency. I took the idea from urology and modified it. Let me know of any changes you think of (or feel free to go ahead and make them yourself). It is open for anyone with the link to view and edit.

http://tinyurl.com/zvuq363

good idea.

seems like there are 58 spots available. i'm sure I met more than that on the interview trail.

good luck everyone.
 
good idea.

seems like there are 58 spots available. i'm sure I met more than that on the interview trail.

good luck everyone.

Yes, there are not enough spots for all of us. Some incredibly qualified candidates this year. Luckily there is more than one way to vascular surgery and most of us applied to gen surg also.
 
Yes, there are not enough spots for all of us. Some incredibly qualified candidates this year. Luckily there is more than one way to vascular surgery and most of us applied to gen surg also.

Definitely a lot of qualified applicants. Glad I threw in some gen surg programs as well.
 
There are about 62 people on the the vascular whatsapp group. I know three applicants that are not part of that group but had pretty decent amount of interviews. Fingers crossed
 
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For future applicants, can u guys start posting the number of programs that u ranked?
16 here
 
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whoa you guys ranked a lot of places. were those gen surg back ups really neccessary?
 
whoa you guys ranked a lot of places. were those gen surg back ups really neccessary?

They were necessary for me, I think. I'm a DO applicant and I didn't get nearly as many vascular interviews as some others (as you can see by the numbers). According to the NRMP charting outcomes, I only have a 58% chance of matching vascular as an independent applicant by ranking 12 programs. Also, this year was especially competitive with a lot more applicants than usual (or so they say).

I'm gonna hope for the best though. There's nothing left to do at this point.


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whoa you guys ranked a lot of places. were those gen surg back ups really neccessary?

I talked to/met maybe 30-35 applicants this seasons. Maybe 2/3rds of them were not applying to general surgery at all. I applied a while ago and had several GS programs in my top 5. My current co-resident and the two residents in the class below me only applied IVS. It all depends on how strong of an applicant you are and then the advice you get from people. I was applying from a school that didn't (at the time) have an IVS program and was told that I "had to" as a safety precaution. I don't think that is the case now given the number of programs that have started, as long as you are a reasonably strong applicant and got a large number of interviews.

I will also say that my year, some people went to 30+ interviews and ranked every single one of them....
 
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I think as you go through the trail you realize that there are programs that are very different in regards to their focus. I definitely found programs that did not fit my career goals along the way. I'm really glad that I applied to general surgery because at the end of it all I ended up ranking some gen surg programs very highly and above many of my vascular programs. When it came down to it, for me it was worth it to do 2-3 years of extra training if it meant that I would be the vascular surgery that I want to be at the end of it.
 
Talking to other applicants over the past few months (I'd say I met about 60 applicants), the lowest number of vascular interviews I heard of was one (from an IMG). The most was 30. The average was probably in the 15-20 range.

With that said, I know everyone didn't apply super broadly. Some of the applicants from the northeast only applied to programs in the northeast. The same applied to applicants from other regions. It's all about personal preference and your "fit".
 
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12 vascular, 10 gen surg. Eek. Hope 12 is enough to match into vascular!
 
One more week (in a sense). It's getting real.

Although next Monday doesn't mean as much to me as Friday since I'm ranking vascular and gen surg.

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I know this has probably been asked before, but what are people thinking may be a "magic" number of ranks to have the best chance for matching? Just curious what you guys heard on the trail. I heard as low as 8, and as high as 15. Will be interesting to see!
 
I've heard all kinds of numbers, and I'm pretty sure there is no magic number. Most residents I talked to mentioned 10-12 and I talked to another resident that said 15-20. With that said, I met one resident who ranked 4 programs that matched and another resident who ranked 9 programs and also matched.

The point is that there is no number. The only known correlation here is that the more programs you rank, the higher your chances of matching. Unfortunately, no one can say "if you rank 15 places, you are guaranteed to match" (although if you look at the NRMP charting outcomes, US MD students had a 100% match rate after about 10-12 programs; totally different ball game for DO's/IMG's)


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The issue with charting outcome data from '14 is first it's 2 years old. Second, the sample size is so small that u really can't take it at the face value.
I guess we ll all find out next week!
 
That's true, but it's all we have to go off of, unfortunately.

Well, next week after this is all over with, I hope to make a post about my interview experiences and my away rotations to maximize the usefulness of this thread. Since integrated vascular is still fairly new, hopefully a post like that will help a person or two.



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First, congrats to everyone that matched. It's nice seeing some familiar names on the Google Doc that was created a few months ago.

Now that the match is finally over and done with, I thought I'd do a quick post to hopefully aid future applicants in this process. Obviously, everyone's experience is going to be a little bit different, but this is what I did so take it as you may.

As I mentioned before, I'm a DO applicant so I think I was battling a slightly different beast compared to most of my fellow applicants. I didn't get many vascular interviews relatively speaking (seems like most other applicants were in the 15+ territory), but I also interviewed at some great general surgery programs as a "back up". I ranked all of my vascular programs before my general surgery programs, mainly because I couldn't think of a good reason to do gen surg first (you can certainly argue this, but it's all about personal preference). Going into this process, I was told 10-12 interviews was good to match, but as I mentioned in another post above, you'll hear all sorts of numbers. In my case, it was true and thankfully I matched at a great program. I would agree that 10-15 ranked programs is a pretty safe bet, but there are certainly no guarantees.

Anyways, I did 3 different sub-I's in the Fall and got a LOR from one of them (my other sub-I's were after the ERAS deadline so an LOR wouldn't have helped). I'm glad I did them, as they gave me a better picture of what vascular surgery actually is and they helped me make some connections along the way. Also, I don't have a "home program", so I think they were especially important in my case. If you are considering doing an away at a popular institution (Georgetown, MGH, etc.), I recommend getting on VSAS as soon as possible to get a rotation set up, because these sites fill up fast.

Another thing I did was that I went to the SVS VAM in June. I don't think this really helped my application in any way, but it was nice to see a different aspect of the field and again, I made some nice connections. If you are a 3rd year student, I would recommend trying to go. There is a nice travel scholarship you can apply for (the deadline for this year has already passed), but even if you don't get it, you are still welcome to go and participate in all the medical student activities.

Hopefully this post is beneficial to someone. Like I said, you'll hear all sorts of different ways to go about applying for vascular surgery, but this is what I did and it worked. Please let me know if you have any questions about applying and I'll get back to you. Integrated vascular surgery is still a growing idea and it's really helpful speaking to those people who have first hand experience.
 
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**I am so sorry, this got obscenely long. I hope it is helpful to future applicants.

An Opinionated Guide on Applying to Integrated Vascular Surgery Residency (Based on the 2016 Match)
I thought I would add another anecdotal experience because I remember how little up-to-date information there was on applying to vascular surgery as I neared the end of my 3rd year. I was happy with where I matched this year. I only applied to the ~30 programs I was willing to go to, and I only interviewed at the 15-20 of those that I was most interested in. I did not receive initial invitations to interview at 3 programs, one of which was a “top” program, and the other two which were outside of my geographical region.

*Disclaimer: I went to a US Allopathic medical school with a strong research focus and a home integrated vascular surgery residency (but not a top 10 or Ivy League equivalent school). I have intentionally obfuscated my location / identity to some extent, but I’m sure you can figure it out if you try hard enough (I kindly request that you not).

**I apologize in advance if this is a mess, I would rather put some information out there while my memory is still fresh than nothing at all.

4th Year:
My first solid information about applying to integrated vascular surgery came from attending the SVS VAM before my 4th year. I had been seriously considering vascular surgery, and I had been nearing completion of a vascular surgery research project started before my clinical years. However, I was not sure I wanted to apply to vascular given how little I knew about what it would take to match to the type of program I was aiming for.

I attended the events of the student program, which included panels of recently matched residents and program directors as well as talks on how to perform well on sub-internships and the interview trail. Honestly, the experience was intimidating. I met a lot of students who had been pursuing vascular surgery with very strong mentorship and a record of presenting posters, etc at conferences. While I had been pursuing vascular research, I hadn’t actually had any output yet (and I wouldn’t until after rank list submission). I had also not fully engaged my mentor about how to pursue vascular.

Nevertheless, I opted to continue and started my 4th year with a home vascular surgery sub-i. There is plenty of good advice on how to excel on sub-i’s available elsewhere. I do have a few suggestions though. It can be stressful and disorienting being dropped into an unknown environment month to month: always take your time being observant and learning how things are done when you are starting. Try and spend as much time as you can with the patients in your team’s care, and try and learn how to be the kind of resident (and doctor) you want to be. Have some thoughts on who would be a good letter writer and talk with them sooner than later. Residents notice when you are engaged and working hard, you may be surprised by what makes it up the chain (and possibly into your LORs).

The faculty at my home institution were incredibly supportive, and to be honest, were the biggest factor in my matching. I ended up doing my away sub-i’s at two other academic vascular surgery programs.

Deciding where to do sub-i’s:
Overall, you should aim to do sub-I's at the programs you think you will most want to end up, and that will be a very individual decision (that may change!). Three total (i.e. two aways) is a reasonable number.

You can likely guess the most popular programs for sub-i's from the list of available rotations on VSAS. Popularity is more strongly correlated with location and perceived institutional quality than the actual quality of the vascular surgery program. The only way to truly know the nature of a program is to rotate there. Along the interview trail, you should always be vigilant about discrepancies between sub-i experiences and the sales pitch given to you by programs.

Stanford was by far the most popular choice, my guess is that 8-15 sub-I's were there over the summer/fall months. I would carefully consider what a letter from there would mean for your application, because it could result in your direct comparison to that many other applicants (could be very good --if you were one of the best, as perceived by them, neutral, or somewhat bad-- if you were labeled as average). That said, the sub-I at Stanford is possibly the best endovascular learning experience out there for rotating medical students.

I was surprised to learn along the way that there are some very solid programs that don't have many sub-I's, but that do take visiting students. These are generally programs that are not participating in VSAS including: MGH, BID, UPMC, and UCLA (still has a reasonable number due to location). There are equivalently great programs I am not mentioning here, simply because I don't know all the programs that don't participate in VSAS.

Where to Apply (i.e. Quick Program Facts):
To be clear: the below categories are not to say that “these are the good programs”. They are exactly as stated, information about size and baseline program features. A clear example: The University of Wisconsin, as far as I know, is a truly great program. World class faculty, multiple R01 Funded vascular labs, NIH T-32 grant, complex case load, and on and on… but they are not in these categories, because they are a 1 resident per year program, and they do not have built-in research years (though they seemed very open to residents pursuing dedicated research time). Another obvious example: Washington University, another one: Mayo Clinic, another one: University of Washington, another one: UCLA, another one: UPenn and this can go on ad infinitum…


Programs with 2 residents per year:
USF, LSU, MGH, UPMC, University of Massachusetts, Cleveland Clinic, Mount Sinai, Methodist
*Also, don’t forget to carefully evaluate programs that have yet to graduate residents / have no senior residents yet and are not discontinuing or shrinking their fellowship. Some will be adding rotations so that senior level trainees aren’t at the same place, but others will be putting more trainees at the same places they already are.

Programs with Built-In Research Years (Consider if you are strongly interested in academics / research - usually NIH T-32 or institutionally funded - a small number of programs mention the option to pursue research years - but from observation - this rarely ever happens and funding is not guaranteed):
Yale (6 year program), Dartmouth (6 year program), Methodist (6 year program), BID (7 year program), University of Michigan (7 year program), UPMC (7 year program), MGH (7 year program), Stanford (7 year program), Northwestern (7 year program - 2 research years are technically optional, but almost every resident has done it)

Programs with high open case volume or complex endovascular case volume:
Consult a mentor about which programs are the best for you. If you want to be an open aortic surgeon, you probably should end up at one of a handful of programs with adequate open aortic volume. Same deal for advanced endovascular techniques (custom fenestrated grafts, Investigational devices, etc.).
**Of note, there are programs that have surgeons who do very complex open and endovascular procedures with relatively low case volume. On the interview day, they may show you those awesome cases, but keep in mind that case complexity doesn't imply a busy vascular surgery service / high case volume.

The Interview Gauntlet:
You will start hearing about interviews in a haphazard way sometime after MSPEs go in. You will likely have to deal with clashing interview days, so if you are more meticulous about it than I was, you can try and scout out interview dates before offers start going out. Reply as quickly as humanly possible to interview invites, it can make the difference between interviewing somewhere and not. If you can’t get to your email / ERAS, then get someone to help you if possible (It baffles me that some programs invite too many people and then do a first-come first-serve system).

You will quickly notice that you are seeing the same group of 30-40 people at every interview (10-20 at a time). By the second half of interviews, I had already effectively met every applicant at every interview. This was apparently a strong year of vascular surgery applicants. I would disregard Charting the Match 2014. Many applicants I met on the trail seemed to have strong academic performance, and more often than not, vascular research or another strong tie to the field. You will start to get an idea of which applicants want to go where, and you will start to realize the vascular match isn’t as straightforward as in larger fields since there is only one position per program for the most part (and each program interviews 20-40 applicants). What this amounts to, is that even as a great applicant, you may not have a great chance of matching at some of the programs you interview at (and you might get a sense of that along the way). I will talk a bit about ranking strategy near the end.

Interviews:
The interviews were largely casual and there was almost no pimping. There were 2-3 programs that had intense interview days, but even then, the interviewers were seeing if you would dig yourself into a hole as opposed to them throwing you into one.

Importance of Individual Factors:
- Personal Statement: This is almost completely irrelevant as long as it is passable. Mine was largely generic without miraculous, hilarious, or tragic personal stories.

- LORs: Possibly the most important part of getting interviews and being taken seriously at big programs. Ideally, the program director personally knows your letter writers, and your letters say very good things about you. You will be surprised by how small the world of vascular surgery is. Interviewers at almost every program knew one or more of my letter writers personally (or at least academically).

- Scores / grades: This was probably my strong point. However, academic performance was clearly not the most important single factor. Again, I’m not sure charting the match 2014 applies anymore. There were at least a handful of people, if not more, who would not be out of place numerically applying to ENT, Urology, Derm, Ortho, etc. That said, there seemed to be a wide range of academic performance overall.

- Sub-i’s: I noticed a trend that applicants who did zero vascular sub-i’s or no aways did not necessarily fare as well in the match despite being numerically qualified. Doing the sub-i’s teaches you a lot about the reality of vascular surgery and is a clear signal that you have considered what you are signing up for. Among the greatest fears of any program is investing the time, money, and effort into training a resident who decides vascular surgery isn’t for them after all. There seemed to be a small number of applicants who did not really do vascular sub-i’s (mostly dual applying to general surgery, and had possibly done a vascular elective) or didn’t do aways (this could be fine in some circumstances — but you probably know if that is the case for you).

- Research: My vascular research experience was weaker than what I perceived the average qualified applicant to have. I had one long-running, and brutal, vascular surgery project that I started in my 2nd year that has recently been completed, but the work was accepted too late for interview / ranking season. Ideally, you will have presented at least a poster prior to interview season. Some applicants, I'm not sure exactly how many, had significantly more vascular research output ranging from posters to publications. Don’t be discouraged if you don’t have a strong vascular surgery research background, in retrospect, I’m guessing the high output group was the minority of applicants. Finally, I don't want to mislead about what kind of applicant I was, I did have significant non-vascular surgery research experience.

- Non-research accomplishments: There were applicants who seemed to do very well without a strong research background, but they usually had a strong interest in other areas (i.e. global health, business, tech, etc.).

- Other interests: This will come up constantly during interviews, the interviewers want to know that you are a real person with real interests.

- Interview: I know I am not the best interviewee. Some interviews went very well, and some did not go very well. The interview does make a big difference though. I would recommend following advice better than my own on how to prepare.

- Home Institution: Being from a school with a home program is a huge advantage. That advantage grows more significant if you have the support of faculty who are known on the regional / national level. This cannot be underestimated. If you don’t have a home program, I strongly recommend doing an away rotation as early as possible in your 4th year at a large academic vascular surgery program. While there (can be more than one place over the early months of 4th year) you should try and get LORs and find a mentor who you click with. There is also some degree of regionality. If you are from the south, west coast, midwest, or east coast, you will generally have a stronger shot within that region (though you are by no means trapped in a region).

Post-Interview:
Making a final rank list is a challenging process. As you do so, keep the following in mind:

1. Understand the match algorithm (it isn’t just a magical black box) — see the NRMP website and videos.

2. The only meaningful signal you can send is to your #1 ranked program. Everything else is pretty meaningless. You can email your top 5 or so if you want, but your emails will likely be disregarded. Of course, even telling a program they are your #1 guarantees no advantage, except to tell a program that already likes you that you are taking them seriously. Be honest, don’t tell multiple programs they are your #1. Vascular surgery is a small world.

3. The other, and most powerful, signal that can happen post-interview and pre-rank list submission is when your home or friendly chairman / program director calls your top choice chairman / program director and has a brief conversation with them about you. I honestly have no clue how this happens or what is discussed, but I know it does happen. This seems to be most effective when they know each other. (It should go without saying that your chairman / program director should know who you are.) Overall, this accomplishes a couple of things: 1. It gives the program more confidence that you are a real, honest, hardworking person, 2. It tells the program that you definitely are interested in them. Again, this is all speculation, I don’t actually know much about what goes on with this, but it is mentioned in the University of Michigan Surgery Residency Application Guidebook. [http://surgery.med.umich.edu/portal/education/mse/Residency_GuideBooklet_2015.pdf].

4. There may, or may not, be some post-interview communication that comes your way. I never received any guarantees or strong hints that I would or would not match at my top choice program prior to match day, though there was polite correspondence (thank you’s, etc). I have heard that other programs go as far as to not communicate at all post-interview. Don’t have any expectations with regard to post-interview communication.

5. Remember that technically, per the University of Michigan Surgery Residency Application Guidebook, “Programs are not allowed to reciprocate this [your revealing that you are ranking the program #1] if they are or are not interested”. Also keep in mind if you do receive post-match communication, per the NRMP match agreement neither programs or applicants should “solicit verbal or written statements implying a commitment”, though mutual interest may be expressed.

Post-Match Analysis:
The overall US senior match rate was ~64%. Many people ended up where I predicted they would from the interview trail (their top choices). Unfortunately, some qualified and awesome people who interviewed at >10-15 places did not match in vascular surgery this year. I don’t mention that to be pessimistic, but more so to justify this write-up. Having more information going into the process can make all the difference. There are plenty of spots (nearly 60 across the country) and if you know what you are getting yourself into, there is no reason you can’t match.

Summary:
LORs, sub-i’s, and having a home program where you performed well are probably the most important factors for matching well. I don’t have a clear estimate of average academic performance (and wouldn’t be surprised if it is bimodal anyway - split by program tier), but I would estimate that things have gone up to some degree from Charting the Match 2014. As in any field, demonstrated commitment to vascular surgery via vascular surgery research output helps (whether it makes you shine as an outstanding applicant, or compensates for somewhat lower academic performance, etc.). I would not recommend casually applying as a general surgery applicant with minimal experience or background with vascular surgery rotations. It seems to me that the tide has shifted and more medical students have started to see how great of a field vascular surgery is (it really is awesome!). Best of luck to those applying next year!
 
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No problem, let us know if you have any questions.

Does anyone know why there were 56 spots offered in the match? I thought there were 58.


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Thanks you Doctors for all this information, there doesn't seem to be any available information elsewhere.

Anyone know which programs offer away rotations, I heard not all programs use VSAS.
Also, any match data spreadsheets out there?
 
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I m a third year interested in vascular surgery . Currently deciding on where to do my away rotations. I have applied to a bunch of places but i m hearing more and more from my attendings to go to big name places with a lot of volume such as Abany, Sinai, UMass, Pitt, USF. Do you guys have any input? how many vascular roatations do people usually sign up for?
 
I m a third year interested in vascular surgery . Currently deciding on where to do my away rotations. I have applied to a bunch of places but i m hearing more and more from my attendings to go to big name places with a lot of volume such as Abany, Sinai, UMass, Pitt, USF. Do you guys have any input? how many vascular roatations do people usually sign up for?

Range is 0-3 typically. If you don't have a strong IVS home program, it is unusual (but not unheard of) to not do at least one away. If it is not feasible to to do more than one away, I wouldn't sweat it. Aways come down to three things. #1 LOR - In a field like integrated vascular surgery, everyone knows each other. More often than not, faculty know your letter writers at a minimum by reputation and frequently personally. #2 Program exposure - You don't know what you don't see. Most of us know one undergrad, one medical school, one residency. You have no idea how other hospitals function. You have no idea how different services are setup. Doing aways gives you a window into a different world. It gives you a new frame of reference for those chats with people on the interview trail about different programs. It is very different doing vascular at a level 1 trauma center vs. level 3. It is very different being in a mostly private hospital vs. major academic center etc. #3 You want to learn some vascular surgery. Ya, the application process trumps all. You will have 5-7 years of residency to teach you how to be a vascular surgeon. But, you can learn a lot in a month on a good vascular service.

You should do aways at places that you potentially are interested in by reputation or location and at the traditionally stronger programs. I would not get hung up on "volume" for an away. Yes, busier is absolutely better, but there are few if any IVS programs that don't have sufficient volume to support their residents and keep medical students busy. The advantages of the older, well established programs is that their services will tend to be better run, didactics will be better managed, faculty will be more in teaching mode, etc.

All in all, I recommend doing aways at local programs within your own city or immediate area, then pick and choose 1 or 2 of your target programs to do an "audition" rotation with where you are really trying to demonstrate that you are the kind of future resident that they want. A word of warning, of course, these can harm as much as they can help. If you are not the kind of person that leaves good impressions, aways CAN hurt you, especially at that hospital.

ps. If you want to call a poster's attention to a post, tag them with an @ symbol like this @johnywalker2009. This forum doesn't get a ton of traffic outside of application seasons, so I don't check it more than once every couple of days. The tag will draw me (or whoever) the next time they log in.
 
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They were necessary for me, I think. I'm a DO applicant and I didn't get nearly as many vascular interviews as some others (as you can see by the numbers). According to the NRMP charting outcomes, I only have a 58% chance of matching vascular as an independent applicant by ranking 12 programs. Also, this year was especially competitive with a lot more applicants than usual (or so they say).

I'm gonna hope for the best though. There's nothing left to do at this point.


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Hi there! I am a DO and interested in Vascular surgery. I would love to hear about your 4th year app/interviewing experience and to learn any tips you might have about how to give it my best shot. Do you have a few minutes to answer if I message you with questions? Thanks
 
Hi there! I am a DO and interested in Vascular surgery. I would love to hear about your 4th year app/interviewing experience and to learn any tips you might have about how to give it my best shot. Do you have a few minutes to answer if I message you with questions? Thanks

yep. message me anytime. i may not respond immediately or even in adequate time, but i will respond eventually. i am rarely on this site anymore. happy to help though.
 
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