2 Weeks Left- Help me decide where to go to med school this fall!

[bluebananaslug]

My situation in January:

I've just graduated from UW Madison this winter, and am done with my interviews.
I have 4 acceptances from schools in the midwest, but the ones that really matter are UW and Northwestern. I also am on the waitlist for Hopkins, (and Vandy and Emory)


I had really hoped to leave Wisconsin for med school, but UW is offering me a full scholarship (I got a call from the dean, haven't received the official letter or details). I was getting pretty excited about moving to Chicago for NW, but this scholarship changes things.
My dream school is Hopkins, but I think my chances of getting off the waitlist are low at best.


And in April:

Another waitlist position, this time from WashU

I've attended 2nd Looks at both UW and Feinberg. UW's was good, but I really did love Northwestern's. One of the main draws for me is Chicago itself.
Is it worth it for me to give up a full scholarship to go to one of the most expensive med schools in the country, with basically no financial aid?

The difference in COA is around 200K for all four years.

I'm interested in going into Pediatrics and working internationally in the field of global health disparities (e.g. MSF, or working in educational or training capacities with NGOs or government institutions). I'm more drawn to urban public health than rural/suburban.
I feel like getting out of med school without debt would give me the flexibility to branch out into a more non-traditional career after residency. Conversely, med school at Northwestern may give me better training in Peds (Lurie Children's), an opportunity to connect and engage with more high-profile names in Global Health (their Ctr for Global Health is pretty expansive), and experience with diverse patient populations and health disparities, including immigrant populations.

Based on my current savings and parental support, if I went to NW, I would come out with around 110 K in debt, and if I went to Madison, I wouldn't have any debt at all. I would actually have a positive balance as I saved a lot of money by going to UW for undergrad on scholarship (over paying full tuition to much better but more expensive private schools)


The SDN community has been very helpful to me in the past -What do you think? I'd really love any opinions or suggestions. Thanks!

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[alpharez]

The free one.

 

[La Presse]

Go to UW dude. Feinberg is great, but not THAT great.

I'm sure there are still opportunities in global health at UW also. Maybe go to Feinberg for residency? Sinai also has great global health connections.

 

[WillburCobb]

Follow teh money. But srsly who wants to be a Badger???

 

[Ismet]

Moving to school-specific discussions forum

 

[bluebananaslug]

I figured current med students might have better insight for me in making this decision. If you're willing to help or offer advice, a thousand thanks!

I'm a WI resident, & just graduated from UW Madison this winter. I had 4 acceptances from schools in the midwest. I denied Case Western, and Twin Cities is still technically on the table, as they're offering me in-state tuition. Still, the ones that really matter are UW and Northwestern. I also am on the waitlist for Hopkins, (and Vandy and Emory, and Wash U).

I had really hoped to leave Wisconsin for med school, but UW is offering me a full scholarship (I got a call from the dean, haven't received the official letter or details). I was getting pretty excited about moving to Chicago for NW, but this scholarship changes things.
My dream school is Hopkins, but I think my chances of getting off the waitlist are low at best.

I've attended 2nd Looks at both UW and Feinberg. UW's was good, but I really did love Northwestern's. One of the main draws for me is Chicago itself.
Is it worth it for me to give up a full scholarship to go to one of the most expensive med schools in the country, with basically no financial aid?

The difference in COA is around 200K for all four years.

I'm interested in going into Pediatrics and working internationally in the field of global health disparities (e.g. MSF, or working in educational or training capacities with NGOs or government institutions). I'm more drawn to urban public health than rural/suburban.
I feel like getting out of med school without debt would give me the flexibility to branch out into a more non-traditional career after residency. Conversely, med school at Northwestern may give me better training in Peds (Lurie Children's), an opportunity to connect and engage with more high-profile names in Global Health (their Ctr for Global Health is pretty expansive), and experience with diverse patient populations and health disparities, including immigrant populations.

Based on my current savings and parental support, if I went to NW, I would come out with around 110 K in debt, and if I went to Madison, I wouldn't have any debt at all. I would actually have a positive balance as I saved a lot of money by going to UW for undergrad on scholarship (over paying full tuition to much better but more expensive private schools)

The SDN community has been very helpful to me in the past -What do you think? There's also a poll if you're just inclined to click rather than type. Thanks!

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

I'd pick Wisconsin since Northwestern isn't a significantly better school. If you get off the Hopkins wait-list, that's about the only school I'd consider over a full ride to a well-established school like Wisconsin. Maybe WashU but probably not. If the only thing you like better about NW is the name and the city it's in, then this is a no-brainer. If there is some other aspect like grading or curriculum or whatever that you haven't mentioned, I'd still have to think pretty hard before turning down Wisconsin.

 

[kittykattat]

UW is never a bad choice, especially at no cost. I guess you have to consider if the extra $110k plus interest is worth some of the things you cant find in WI such as an urban environment, the center for global health, and a large Children's hospital.

Also, you now have 4 waitlists if I saw correctly, I wouldnt count yourself out in that respect just yet!!

 

[Cooldynasty]

Yea this can be a tough decision, but going to UW won't hold u back that much. I mean, full scholarships to med school don't come everyday and being debt free is not the most common thing amongst med students. If you are great you're great, and it appears that you're great so going to UW will not limit your greatness!!! You will make a great doctor either way!!! Take the free one!!!

 

[BurghStudent]

Having zero debt will open many possibilities for you in terms of your specialty choice. Even if you decide to go into a different specialty, not having that $200K creeping up with interest staring you in the face is an amazing feeling, I would imagine. You can go into peds with no worries.

Then again, Hopkins is Hopkins. Can't you accept the UW decision, and then withdraw if you get off the Hopkins waitlist?

I'm not sure if going to NW over UW is worth it considering the money. Whatever you decide, you managed to get a US MD track on their dime. Great job!

 

[bluebananaslug]

Thanks, Cooldynasty! and everyone else

A few other responses to points brought up: UW is not pass fail in Yr 2
UW makes you do rotations in rural WI in yr 3 &4, not really my cup of tea, but I guess it's not terrible.
The people seem pretty cool at both. I'm not originally from WI or small towns, I've always felt like I don't really fit in here, but I made the 'sacrifice' to go to UW for undergrad and save $ so I guess I was looking forward to moving away. (and going somewhere WARMER, haha!)
Yes, if I get off any waitlist that would definitely change the equation a bit

 

[PL198]

UW hands down. The flexibility of having no or very little cost is invaluable. I don't think your med school is going to break how successful of a doctor you are. However not having any stress about money basically should help quite a bit. Can't pass up an opportunity like that IMO.

 

[Davida]

200k COA difference after four years = 400k difference after residency = likely paying 3x as much per year for as long as it takes you to pay it off, which may unfortunately be a reeeaaally long time if you're going into peds. Compounding interest is fun!

I get the dilemma, and I know it's hard to follow the money instead of your heart, because I didn't for college. But as someone who has a huge amount of regret about attending the expensive undergrad, I always want to shout "GO TO THE CHEAP SCHOOL" through the computer screen when I see these threads.

ETA: Did not read carefully - just saw that the total loan difference would be about ~100k, not 200k. So the numbers in my rough BOTEC should be smaller, but I stand by my main point. Go to the free school.

 

[bluebananaslug]

200k COA difference after four years = 400k difference after residency = likely paying 3x as much per year for as long as it takes you to pay it off, which may unfortunately be a reeeaaally long time if you're going into peds. Compounding interest is fun!

I should probably have bolded this in the description, but Davida, 'based on my current savings and parental support, if I went to NW, I would come out with around 110 K in debt.' So not quite as bad as 200K, but still significant.
As a kid of immigrants, (and rather stingy ones at that) I've not been really raised in the 'follow your dreams' American rhetoric, but always been told to make the responsible/sensible decision. Even if my debt is lower than most med students, it probably would make me more uncomfortable than it would most other people. I think I could live cheaply in order to try to pay it off aggressively, but it might just be better to not have any in the first place.

 

[LostinLift]

Not even a question my (wo)man. Congrats on the ride it's an amazing feeling

 

[bluebananaslug]

Thanks, all!

Yes, if I get off any waitlist that would definitely change the equation a bit. If I got off the Hopkins waitlist, I would give up UW or NW to go there instead.
So accepting UW and then withdrawing based on waitlist movement would be a solid option.

Perhaps other relevant considerations?:
- UW is not pass fail in Yr 2
- UW makes you do rotations in rural WI in yr 3 &4, not really my cup of tea, but I guess it's not terrible.
- Based on my career aspirations, I'd love to get an MPH at some point. At NW, I could get one within 4 years at no extra cost. Not so at UW

The people seem pretty cool at both. I'm not originally from WI or small towns, I've always felt like I don't really fit in here, but I made the 'sacrifice' to go to UW for undergrad and save $ so I guess I was looking forward to moving away. (and going somewhere WARMER, haha!)

 

[redblue]

I've heard from friends at NW that starting with this current M1 class, they're no longer pass fail. Not sure if the info has been passed on to the current M1's though.
I've also heard UW is curved second year so even if you get a 90% on a test, if you're below average, you still get a C.

I'd say take the money and run

 

[PL198]

Thanks, all!

Yes, if I get off any waitlist that would definitely change the equation a bit. If I got off the Hopkins waitlist, I would give up UW or NW to go there instead.
So accepting UW and then withdrawing based on waitlist movement would be a solid option.

Perhaps other relevant considerations?:
UW is not pass fail in Yr 2
UW makes you do rotations in rural WI in yr 3 &4, not really my cup of tea, but I guess it's not terrible.
The people seem pretty cool at both. I'm not originally from WI or small towns, I've always felt like I don't really fit in here, but I made the 'sacrifice' to go to UW for undergrad and save $ so I guess I was looking forward to moving away. (and going somewhere WARMER, haha!)

To me, all of that sounds like having to walk through some puddles to get to Disneyland. No med school debt is something very few students can have.

 

[Davida]

I should probably have bolded this in the description, but Davida, 'based on my current savings and parental support, if I went to NW, I would come out with around 110 K in debt.' So not quite as bad as 200K, but still significant.
As a kid of immigrants, (and rather stingy ones at that) I've not been really raised in the 'follow your dreams' American rhetoric, but always been told to make the responsible/sensible decision. Even if my debt is lower than most med students, it probably would make me more uncomfortable than it would most other people. I think I could live cheaply in order to try to pay it off aggressively, but it might just be better to not have any in the first place.

I edited just as you wrote this. Sorry about not reading carefully! I can actually give you more accurate numbers at a 100k difference, since I ran the numbers for an 80k difference when I was comparing my debt load for two schools. At the school that cost 80k more, I'd be paying around 4500 per month on the ten year plan; at the school that cost less, it'd be about 2500 a month. So it's 24,000 difference a year.

I'm also planning on paying it off aggressively, so the consequences wouldn't be that dire for me either. HOWEVER. You don't know how your life is going to change by the end of residency. If you have a kid, if you have an unemployed spouse, or hell, even if you're tired of living like a student, you might not be able to pay it off as aggressively as you originally planned. And debt...it's a handcuff. It can prevent you from going part time (or making other lifestyle adjustments), it can prevent you from leaving if you hate your job, and it can dictate your life choices for so much longer than you had expected and in ways that you don't expect. (A small example: I'm getting married within the next few years. It might seem trivial, but I always have wanted a big, formal wedding. Because of my debt and my partner's debt, we feel like it's not financially responsible to do this, and we'll probably end up at the courthouse. It's not a huge deal, but it's disappointing, and an example of one of the small ways that having debt ripples down to other parts of your life.)

Sorry about the long rant - I admit that I grew up in a poor family, so I have always had a very thin financial safety net and debt terrifies me. But the guy running http://whitecoatinvestor.com agrees with me, so I don't think I'm totally off base.

 

[trino]

I edited just as you wrote this. Sorry about not reading carefully! I can actually give you more accurate numbers at a 100k difference, since I ran the numbers for an 80k difference when I was comparing my debt load for two schools. At the school that cost 80k more, I'd be paying around 4500 per month on the ten year plan; at the school that cost less, it'd be about 2500 a month. So it's 24,000 difference a year.

I'm also planning on paying it off aggressively, so the consequences wouldn't be that dire for me either. HOWEVER. You don't know how your life is going to change by the end of residency. If you have a kid, if you have an unemployed spouse, or hell, even if you're tired of living like a student, you might not be able to pay it off as aggressively as you originally planned. And debt...it's a handcuff. It can prevent you from going part time (or making other lifestyle adjustments), it can prevent you from leaving if you hate your job, and it can dictate your life choices for so much longer than you had expected and in ways that you don't expect. (A small example: I'm getting married within the next few years. It might seem trivial, but I always have wanted a big, formal wedding. Because of my debt and my partner's debt, we feel like it's not financially responsible to do this, and we'll probably end up at the courthouse. It's not a huge deal, but it's disappointing, and an example of one of the small ways that having debt ripples down to other parts of your life.)

Sorry about the long rant - I admit that I grew up in a poor family, so I have always had a very thin financial safety net and debt terrifies me. But the guy running http://whitecoatinvestor.com agrees with me, so I don't think I'm totally off base.

One if my favorite books. Haven't found time to dive into the blog yet. This decision would be different if you were shooting for a competitive specialty like the rest of sdn. However, you're shooting for peds. Given your intelligence, you're going to make it no matter what the school. I think the only reason you should go to NW is if you hate UW. And I mean absolutely loath and don't want to spend another second there. If you can stomach 4 more years then you can do well and have your pick for residency

 

[bluebananaslug]

(debt) can prevent you from going part time (or making other lifestyle adjustments), it can prevent you from leaving if you hate your job, and it can dictate your life choices for so much longer than you had expected and in ways that you don't expect.

Davida, thanks so much for your very practical and honest advice, numbers included.
With the fact that I'm seriously considering a career that's "non-traditional" for most docs, including working internationally, I do think I would feel better having back up finances rather than debt.

~~and, congrats on the marriage plans, wish you both the best!

 

[bluebananaslug]

I think the only reason you should go to NW is if you hate UW. And I mean absolutely loath and don't want to spend another second there. If you can stomach 4 more years then you can do well and have your pick for residency

No one has quite put it that way. I'm not originally from WI or smaller places, and I've always felt like I don't really fit in here, but I made the 'sacrifice' to go to UW for undergrad and save $ so I guess I was looking forward to moving away. I do feel I would be happier in Chicago, but I don't "HATE" Madison by any means. I've met some great people here and will likely meet many more. The pretty-much-enforced very rural rotations in 3rd and 4th years are not exactly my cup of tea, but I can suck it up. The other differences in curriculum may favor NW a little, but it's not too drastic.
Finally, NW would let me also complete an MPH simultaneously with an MD, but of course with the $ I save at UW, I could always get one later.

 

[Davida]

Davida, thanks so much for your very practical and honest advice, numbers included.
With the fact that I'm seriously considering a career that's "non-traditional" for most docs, including working internationally, I do think I would feel better having back up finances rather than debt.

~~and, congrats on the marriage plans, wish you both the best!

Thank you! And congratulations to you too - a scholarship to med school is an incredible achievement.

 

[premed2000]

I feel like we met during the second look at NW. Haha I loved everything about NW. I am sure you probably did too. However, with that scholarship to UW, I don't know if I'd turn it down. Unless you will truly be more happy at NW and you are just "content" about being at UW because IMO personal happiness is worth more than anything. Hah

 

[trino]

No one has quite put it that way. I'm not originally from WI or smaller places, and I've always felt like I don't really fit in here, but I made the 'sacrifice' to go to UW for undergrad and save $ so I guess I was looking forward to moving away. I do feel I would be happier in Chicago, but I don't "HATE" Madison by any means. I've met some great people here and will likely meet many more. The pretty-much-enforced very rural rotations in 3rd and 4th years are not exactly my cup of tea, but I can suck it up. The other differences in curriculum may favor NW a little, but it's not too drastic.
Finally, NW would let me also complete an MPH simultaneously with an MD, but of course with the $ I save at UW, I could always get one later.

I think since you can stomach it, stay at UW. However, I'm also going to make your decision a lot harder (I'm sorry, I'm just trying to give good advice). How much do you value your 20s? There are two options here if you value your experience in your "prime." Option A is going to school in Chicago. You'll have more free time (compared to residency), but every dollar you spend is another two dollars (more or less, you get the point) that you'll have to pay back. Option B is not having as much fun at UW, but being able to "live it up" in your free time in residency. While I doubt peds residency is really rigorous compared to something like surgery, no doubt you'll be working hard and having money to spend during this time can help keep you sane. For me, it comes out like this in my mind. I can either have a great 4 years of medical school and then a not so great residency years, or I can have an ok medical school and an ok residency (this could be a great 4 years depending on where you match). I personally would choose consistency and not have the thought of money constantly on my mind. Personal preference though

I actually also looked into 5 year combined MPH programs. The fact of the matter is, if you are sure you will use it right out of residency, then NW has an advantage in that regard. However, talking to many docs and MPH's that work with MD/MPH, the vast majority of doctors actually get one after they have done residency and made sure they are interested in the field that will require the MPH. I think you'll have no problem getting an MPH later, and could get it very soon after residency if you don't have debt at UW.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that you are very unlikely to use your MPH right out of residency if you go to NW. You are going to have to pay off those loans, possibly make a down payment on a house, and pay for that wedding. Doing all this is likely going to keep you in "normal" peds for a while before you have the funds to branch out

 

[DrBowtie]

UW no brainer

 

[alpinism]

My situation in January:

I've just graduated from UW Madison this winter, and am done with my interviews.
I have 4 acceptances from schools in the midwest, but the ones that really matter are UW and Northwestern. I also am on the waitlist for Hopkins, (and Vandy and Emory)


I had really hoped to leave Wisconsin for med school, but UW is offering me a full scholarship (I got a call from the dean, haven't received the official letter or details). I was getting pretty excited about moving to Chicago for NW, but this scholarship changes things.
My dream school is Hopkins, but I think my chances of getting off the waitlist are low at best.


And in April:

Another waitlist position, this time from WashU

I've attended 2nd Looks at both UW and Feinberg. UW's was good, but I really did love Northwestern's. One of the main draws for me is Chicago itself.
Is it worth it for me to give up a full scholarship to go to one of the most expensive med schools in the country, with basically no financial aid?

The difference in COA is around 200K for all four years.

I'm interested in going into Pediatrics and working internationally in the field of global health disparities (e.g. MSF, or working in educational or training capacities with NGOs or government institutions). I'm more drawn to urban public health than rural/suburban.
I feel like getting out of med school without debt would give me the flexibility to branch out into a more non-traditional career after residency. Conversely, med school at Northwestern may give me better training in Peds (Lurie Children's), an opportunity to connect and engage with more high-profile names in Global Health (their Ctr for Global Health is pretty expansive), and experience with diverse patient populations and health disparities, including immigrant populations.

Based on my current savings and parental support, if I went to NW, I would come out with around 110 K in debt, and if I went to Madison, I wouldn't have any debt at all. I would actually have a positive balance as I saved a lot of money by going to UW for undergrad on scholarship (over paying full tuition to much better but more expensive private schools)


The SDN community has been very helpful to me in the past -What do you think? I'd really love any opinions or suggestions. Thanks!

Honestly, go to the school you like better.

It sounds like the only reason your considering UW is bc of the cost and if you didn't have a scholarship you'd go to NW in a heartbeat.

Correct?

Having grades sucks. Its a huge time drain and it takes away from boards studying plus spending time with friends/family. If you can't wait to get out of WI then you're likely going to be pretty miserable come M2 and you're studying 12hrs per day in order to get an A.

Since you don't have any undergrad loans, coming out of med school w only 110K in debt isn't a bad deal. If you're smart w you're money and live frugally for a couple yrs post residency you shouldn't have any trouble paying it off. Then you can join MSF and go overseas (that's my plan after residency).

To be fair though, NW isn't exactly focused on taking care of "diverse patient populations and correcting health disparities." Their patient population is primarily white upper class from the north side of Chicago. Then again so is UW with a more rural population.

 

[Smurfette]

Go to UW. The lack of debt is a HUGE asset to your future. The difference will probably be far more than 200K between loan interest, COL in Madison vs. Chicago and all the related stuff due to location.

Moving to PreAllo as this is a premed question.

 

[alpinism]

I feel like we met during the second look at NW. Haha I loved everything about NW. I am sure you probably did too. However, with that scholarship to UW, I don't know if I'd turn it down. Unless you will truly be more happy at NW and you are just "content" about being at UW because IMO personal happiness is worth more than anything. Hah

This.

 

[Oso]

I've heard from friends at NW that starting with this current M1 class, they're no longer pass fail. Not sure if the info has been passed on to the current M1's though.
I've also heard UW is curved second year so even if you get a 90% on a test, if you're below average, you still get a C.

I'd say take the money and run

Lol Northwestern is not switching to grades. They are very much pass/fail.

OP, I think turning down the full ride at UW would be tough, but you also shouldn't go if you will be unhappy. There are many people at many private schools who think the full price tag is worth it. You have to decide if the extra debt is worth it to you or not. If you can see yourself happy at UW, then I think it may be worth it. They're a very solid school, definitely not the typical state school. Whatever you decide, good luck.

 

[Ismet]

Merging duplicate threads.

 

[bluebananaslug]

In the unlikely case anyone reads this, just want to note that I ended up going to UW and have overall loved my time here!
Thanks to everyone for the advice.

 

[MusicDOc124]

Free. Scholarship. Stay there. Don't leave. UW. Not sure how many other ways to put it, but pretty sure you get the point!